MC Cartridge

[roballnik]

does anyone have a simple explanation on when and why a high, medium or low output MC should be used. Is it just user preference, type of music, etc?

Thanks

Roert

[Ianibby]

As I understand it has a lot to do with the limitations of your phono stage. LOMC low output moving coil cartridge the signal is going to have to be bumped up more in order for you to get suitable sound to your ears. Tone arm I think has something to do with your choice too. I know someone on here will have a better explanation but I thought if throw in my thoughts so I could be corrected and in turn learn something. Cheers

[Zebbo]

They don't have specific uses, it's pretty much down to what phono stage you have and personal choice. If you only have a MM. (moving magnet), stage you would need a high output MC which will have an output similar to a moving magnet - around 4-5mv. A low output MC typically has an output of around 0.3mv and requires much more gain in the phonostage. I personally wouldn't bother with a high output MC I'd rather invest in a good quality MM cart. Most high quality moving coils are low output.

[A.Wayne]

^^^ If so , why is the Denon Dl110 so highly rated ....

[Tedrick]

^^^ If so , why is the Denon Dl110 so highly rated ....

Yep. Also, Benz Micro offers high-output versions of many of there highly-regarded MC's, all the way up to the US$3,500 Benz Ebony.

[Zebbo]

...and what would the ratio of high output to low output be throughout the moving coil market do you think? There will always be good performers of each genre but given a choice between a low or high output version of the same cartridge I'd be surprised if I preferred the high output version. I've only ever been "blown away" with the delicacy of a LOMC but obviously I've not owned every MC on the market....

[Zebbo]

^^^ If so , why is the Denon Dl110 so highly rated ....

Because it's cheap as chips.

[Alec124c41]

HOMC cartridges that sound great, in my personal experience:
Denon DL-110
Denon DL-160
Benz MC20 H2
Dynavector DV-10x5
Sumiko Talisman Virtuoso
Benz Glyder S2 H
BlueNote Boboli

They are not all cheap as chips.

Cheers,
Alec

[dlaloum]

There was a recent (yesterday) posting by Jonathan Carr, designer of the megabuck Lyra cartridges. (a very highly respected cartridge designer)

His very interesting comments with regards to a discussion re: differences between MC and MM , was that he believes the key is the phono stage. It is very very difficult to design and manufacture a very high quality phono stage for a low output cartridge, and the really good ones are therefore expensive. (he designs phono stages as well)

It is a lot easier to design and build a high quality MM/MI phono stage - they key issue being the level of gain required, and associated issues with noise and distortion in a high gain design.

So the key thing to take away from his comments was - get the best phono stage you can afford, and then use its best capabilities...
If you have an exceptional high gain phono stage - go for LOMC...
If you have any doubts about phono stage quality - go for HOMC

In fact the best value in cartridges is always to be found at the high output levels - both cartridges and phono stage costs ramp up very very quickly as the output level drops.

The very best high output cartridges include cartridges that are considered among the best ever made (eg: the MM technics EPC100)... so the output level and the topology (MC, MM, MI) are not an indicator of sound quality (ie: contrary to popular belief MC is not superior to MM... just different).

You can purchase a high gain phono stage for under $400 - but the same money spent on a lower gain phono stage may get you better performance.

bye for now

David

[A.Wayne]

HOMC is relative also, they are only high in relation to LOMC and not to MM or MI type cartridges, technically they are giving the best of both worlds , enuff gain for good SN and low mass over MM/MI SETUPS ...

[Zebbo]

HOMC cartridges that sound great, in my personal experience:
Denon DL-110
Denon DL-160
Benz MC20 H2
Dynavector DV-10x5
Sumiko Talisman Virtuoso
Benz Glyder S2 H
BlueNote Boboli

They are not all cheap as chips.

Cheers,
Alec

Hi Alec
The important part is that it is your personal experience, which is all any of us can work from, and mine will be different from yours and many others . I've owned the DL-110, DL-160 and also Sumiko Blue Point Special, amongst others, and was underwhelmed by all of them. I only started getting what I thought was a real classy sound from an MC when I could afford to spend a bit more money, and then invariably low output. I did, however, get some lovely sounds from more reasonably priced MM carts, especially the Ortofon 2M Black and Clearaudio Aurum Beta S.

[Hanuman]

... technically they are giving the best of both worlds ...

To be fair, it would be more accurate to say that they (HOMCs) give you some of both worlds. The inevitable engineering choices required to build one tend to set limits on how closely the ideal characteristics of either type (MM or MC) can be met.

[dlaloum]

... technically they are giving the best of both worlds ...

To be fair, it would be more accurate to say that they (HOMCs) give you some of both worlds. The inevitable engineering choices required to build one tend to set limits on how closely the ideal characteristics of either type (MM or MC) can be met.

Each has its strengths and weaknesses - HOMC's are just a different set of compromises...

[dlaloum]

low mass over MM/MI SETUPS ...

Another common fallacy ... the lowest effective mass cartridge ever was the MM Technics EPCP100mk4... and the lowest mass MC is 2 to 3 times the effective mass of that one (0.05mg if I recall correctly?) - the 2nd, 3rd, 4th place were also all MM designs...

The strengths of MC's are not related to mass.
They suffer fewer magnetic issues, and can use more sophisticated magnetic "circuits" - they do not suffer from the losses of high inductance designs, etc...

But low mass just isn't intrinsic to MC - in fact it is strongly in MM / MI cartridges favour. Mind you low mass MM designs usually have similar output levels to HOMC's.... around half the voltage out of "standard" MM's - due to smaller magnets I think...

bye for now

David