Can PVC record sleeves damage vinyl?

[glennefj]

Hi!
I'm new to vinyl, but I bought some paper inner sleeves (pure paper) just to replace the ones which are broken.
I can see that some of the original ones has a poly inner lining, but the ones I bought are pure paper. Is this a problem?

Also, I bought these outer sleeves from eBay. Are these the "bad ones"?

[glennefj]

Hmm.. Not much activity here.

The ones I use are thin, loose and very easy to see through. Are these good or bad?

I also have some thick "orange peel" sleeves. These are most likely PVC.

What do you recommend me?

[JaS]

I think the ones people claim to have problems with are the heavyweight PVC type? I've not had a problem myself and many of my sleeves are 25+ years old, but if you are concerned then the thin 'bag type' may be a safer bet long term?

Regards,
JaS

[Tako]

Just stumbled onto this (and a few others like it) thread, and a few things stand out to me:

This problem seems to occur usually after storing the records without using them for many years, it also seems to appear pretty much instantly , I can't find any examples of records which appear to have slight "misting" , it's either there, or it's not.

This makes me wonder how the records were stored: A Garage or attic can reach 50 degrees celcius on a sunny (summer) day, even in our moderate (Dutch) climate, I'd imagine they could probably get considerably higher in a country like Australia or Thailand.
I'm no chemist,and am just speculating here, but chemicals/solvents/petrol/paint etc etc. are also pretty common items in garages and attics, maybe they can contribute to these problems when evaporating in a poorly ventilated, sun baked storage? (I vaguely remember a story about a guy who had his entire Cd collection "glaze over" after storing it in his garage for just a few weeks, and blamed the petrol fumes / heat combination)

It certainly appears to be a problem that requires a very specific set of circumstances to occur, but which affects a considerable perecentage of the records once these criteria are met. I have never encounterd it, or even heard about it in the Netherlands.

Edit: Some interesting reading: http://www.plastiquarian.com/index.php?id=7&subid=127 PVC has it's own subsection under "problem plastics" a quote: "Polyvinyl chloride: Deterioration: Light causes yellowing and darkening and can lead to the giving off of hydrochloric acid."

[Phoca]

I think what we are dealing with is a combined process. My best guess is that the mould (or bacteria) find their way onto the records and quietly get on with reproducing, feeding on the paper/card cover/label.

The protective pvc then helps to seal in any humidity (nothing outside a lab has zero humidity) and creates a microclimate where the mould/bact. thrive and build up an expanding colony.

First time reading this and I'm interested. I don't claim to know what's going on here, and there does seem to be rationale for being concerned, at least with the heavy PVC outer sleeves. But...I've found the same glazing (at least visually the same) on a very few records stored ONLY in paper - I always removed the outer plastic from new LPs and until recently never used inner or outer plastic sleeves unless they came with an LP (mostly Jazz which are kept in an entirely different location).

The damage appears to have happened when I moved to the Southeast of the US for grad school. North Carolina for 4 years, Washington DC for 1 year and coastal Georgia for 3 years. I never had AC during that time, so my quarters were often hot and humid. I've assumed the LPs got struck with mold and the mold permanently etched the surface of the LPs. I also have a few that have lots of hiss and noise that were probably also damaged by mold, though they don't show the haze.

I'll keep reading to see what comes of this idea.

[Tako]

The mould/fungus idea is also plausible: There is a mould that grows on, and destroys CD's in certain climates. http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/science/nature/1402533.stm

I checked a bunch of classical records that I bought at a flea market a couple of years ago and were all signed and dated by the original owner, these date from around 1961 to 1970, and all have original PVC outer sleeves (as far as i can tell/smell), yet sitting in them for up to 50 years seems not to have affected them at all. I would also like to mention that I have purchased second hand LP's with the PVC outer sleeve completely yellow and brittle, indicating that most of the plasticizers had probably evaporated, but with the records inside them completely unaffected.
Maybe under regular circumstances the PVC gives off its toxic fumes so slowly that it will never reach concentrations high enough to damage the record, but excessive heat will speed up the process and cause higher concentrations of the nasty stuff to build up?

[Tako]

I did some more research in my own collection and have actually found several LP's that appear to have been affected by the dreaded "misting" effect. After checking dozens of records I first noticed it on my black copy of Porcupine Tree's "Moonloop" (I also own a white one, but it's probably much harder to spot on that), these originally came in a purple PVC inner sleeve , packed in a mylar resealable outer sleeve. I put the record in a Nagaoka 102 poly inner after purchase, and stored that in the mylar outer sleave, together with the original purple PVC sleeve.
The record has a vague but noticeable "spotty" appearance, with a hazy line pattern radiating all over the disc. The sounds is not affected by it at this point, so it is not clear if the "damage"occured after I repackaged it, or during the time it was in direct contact with the PVC inner sleeve. I bought the record at a gig, so it could very well have been stored this way for quite some time.
A few things I noticed about the purple inner sleeve:
It seems a lot softer than the "regular" PVC outer sleeves, and while it smells similar, the "PVC smell" on the purple sleeve is A LOT stronger than most of those clear outer sleeves.
With this in mind I immediately thought of those "Simply vinyl" outer sleeves (with the flap and the round sticker to keep them closed), which are also a lot softer than other outer sleeves, so I decided to check those next.
When pulling the first "Simply vinyl" release from my shelves, I was greeted by the same smell that the purpe "moonloop" sleeve had, but found no "misting" on the disc, but further inspection revealed that one of my older "Simply vinyl" releases: Metallica's "Black album" had actually been affected. (Again only visually, there's no hiss)
I have also found several other records with a slight, purely visible misting effect in other situations where they were originally packaged with the soft, almost rubbery PVC as an INNER sleeve, the Metallica album appears to be the only album that was affected right through a cardboard gatefold and a poly lined inner sleeve, but I have noticed that that distinct PVC smell actually carries over to albums (not just the sleeves) standing next to the ones packed in them.
I also found that quite a few of those softer PVC sleeves had stuck to the cardboard gatefolds and were actually pretty hard to remove without damaging anything.

While my experience with this "misting" effect is still very limited compared to the less fortunate people in this thread (Thankfully no audible damage yet), I have decided to get rid of all the PVC on my record shelves. I spent the afternoon getting ALL of my albums out of their PVC outer sleeves, and looking for alternatives for those that came in PVC inner sleeves. Maybe I am overreacting, but at this point I'd rather be safe than sorry. Since i only own a few 100 records I'll probably invest in some "poly" outers in the near future, but for the time being i'll keep them "naked".

[megatrends]

I own some plastic sleeved vinyl that indeed left residue permanently in the grooves usually on the outer edge of the record for about 20 seconds of time worth into the first track and not uniformly over the entire circumference. Usually where it made contact closer to the outside of the sleeve nearest the elements of the room temp etc. many heavy metal album labels like Metalblade Recs and Enigma used plastic sleeves in the 80s and they suck. I have replaced all of them I own because of damage.

I replace plastic sleeves as I find them with paper. Went through my dad's records a couple of weeks ago as he passed away in January and his records were all paper sleeved and all were 40 to 60 years old and all looked great.

I'll add that I have never used PVC outer jacketing on any of my records and all of my records are in fantastic shape. Obviously the cardboard sleeves are showing wear which the PVC sleeve is supposed to prevent but you can't have it all I guess.

I have some record sleeves where the cardboard paper just dissolved from age lol. My Jimi Hendrix Movie soundtrack comes to mind.

[dja69]

A few years ago I've looked into most of my 45's & LP's which I haven't played in years thanks to the invention of CD's and I've notice the one's in plastic outer sleeves damaged the records with the acid (cloudy affect)it created on the vinyl from these sleeves. I ended up throwing these records away which included a rare Jackson 5 LP as they were just unplayable. Also thrown away the plastic outer sleeves as well.

The records without any plastic outer sleeves are in great shape and some had paper and plastic inner sleeves.

My advice is if you have records in these PVC sleeves I would check on these at least every 3 months or even once a month just to be safe there are no signs of sweat (acid) which can dry up on the vinyl to become unplayable and worthless. If you have any EP's or LP's which have the laminated flip-back jackets as most UK records were issued this way doesn't require the plastic outer sleeve.

Also DO NOT USE ANY ANTISTATIC RECORD CLEANER especially if you're going to place the record back into a PVC outer sleeve. My recommendation is use Record Revirginizer or a moist cloth to clean you're records. If you own EP's & LP's which have the laminated flip-back jackets as most UK records were issued this way, doesn't require the plastic outer sleeves.

[pivot]

Are we talking PVC as an issue OR all plastic. All Poly Vinyl Cloride, PVC, is plastic but not all plastic is PVC.

Have been using polyethylene inners and polypropylene outer, most recently MoFi and Sleeve City, and see/hear no issues.

[kelvinMunson]

Paper inners are not a great idea, as they will always leave material on the vinyl. I have been using polythene inners since 1969 and have had no issues.

[jake]

If you just play all your records regularly, you are airing them out and should be fine. If you just store them for 10 years, then the plastic, which has a slight charge, will attract and trap any moisture it can find and congeal. 10 years in the garage or basement and you could be asking for trouble.
I saw a collection of 50,000 records all dull colored vinyl like that. They had been stored in a barn, under a tarp. What a waste - 50,000 records could open 3 or 4 record shops.

[dja69]

If you just play all your records regularly, you are airing them out and should be fine. If you just store them for 10 years, then the plastic, which has a slight charge, will attract and trap any moisture it can find and congeal. 10 years in the garage or basement and you could be asking for trouble.
I saw a collection of 50,000 records all dull colored vinyl like that. They had been stored in a barn, under a tarp. What a waste - 50,000 records could open 3 or 4 record shops.

50,000 records! Makes me cry when I hear stories like that. Suppose all of them had to be thrown away i guess.

[dja69]

A few years ago I've looked into most of my 45's & LP's which I haven't played in years thanks to the invention of CD's and I've notice the one's in plastic outer sleeves damaged the records with the acid (cloudy affect)it created on the vinyl from these sleeves. I ended up throwing these records away which included a rare Jackson 5 LP as they were just unplayable. Also thrown away the plastic outer sleeves as well.

The records without any plastic outer sleeves are in great shape and some had paper and plastic inner sleeves.

My advice is if you have records in these PVC sleeves I would check on these at least every 3 months or even once a month just to be safe there are no signs of sweat (acid) which can dry up on the vinyl to become unplayable and worthless. If you have any EP's or LP's which have the laminated flip-back jackets as most UK records were issued this way doesn't require the plastic outer sleeve.

Also DO NOT USE ANY ANTISTATIC RECORD CLEANER especially if you're going to place the record back into a PVC outer sleeve. My recommendation is use Record Revirginizer or a moist cloth to clean you're records. If you own EP's & LP's which have the laminated flip-back jackets as most UK records were issued this way, doesn't require the plastic outer sleeves.

I meant to say the thick PVC sleeves.