Ortofon tracking angle

[ripblade]

Good day gents.

Ortofon states the tracking angle of the Kontrapunkt B as 20 degrees. I use this spec as an aid to setting the arm VTA. However, in looking at the cartridge geometry through a USB microscope I see the actual tracking angle is much greater.

The image below shows the cantilever angle and SRA wrt a horizontal surface, arm level and VTF loaded at 2.7gms.

Could someone please explain this discrepancy? Am I not looking at this correctly?

Thanks in advance.

[Ldg]

Hi ripblade.

I agree, it is not right. This is one for Ortofon, suggest take it up with them and report back. The rake angle, and the VTA, both look and measure very wrong.

[Blue Angel]

That's a Gyger FG11 Ruby cantilever/stylus assembly.

What does it sound like? Can you hear any distortion? Do you have any test records? I'm not sure of your cartridge's VTF - is it specified at 2.7g or is there a range eg from Xg to Yg?

My guess is that your cartridge sounds OK - even nice (if you like Ortofon's house sound, despite the unusual rake angle.

ba

[kalypso]

Perhaps this helps:

http://www.n.mackie.btinternet.co.uk/do ... onvta.html

It's the "rega VTA Fact Sheet" by Roy Gandy.

Very confusing to me, but seems to be true.

As a result of reading this, i keep my arm adjusted approx. parallel to the disc surface and don't take things that serious.

regards, kalypso

[Ldg]

I agree, it's a simply beautiful stylus/cantilever. And, you can see the centre axis of the stylus makes a 20 deg angle with the line of the cantilever. Surely that's the intended running angle here. I can't believe that c 8 deg rake angle is intended, or won't have penalties as to friction/wear and distortion. Not on something of this class. And the VTA can't be intended to be c 28 deg, surely not.......it's most unfortunate but can't be right ?

Does the rake angle change/improve during playback, when friction/drag is in play ? If not, surely it's one for Ortofon.

[lini]

Actually the VTA is defined from needle tip to suspension pivot, so that angle would be even steeper.

Grretings from Munich!

Manfred / lini

[ripblade]

This is one for Ortofon, suggest take it up with them and report back

Thanks, LD. This specimen isn't unique. I have an acquaintance with a Kontra A with the same extreme geometry. When he contacted Ortofon he received the standard boiler plate response about the cart performing correctly with arm level, etc. I was hoping someone other than the PR dept at Ortofon could offer a more in depth explanation.

What does it sound like? Can you hear any distortion? Do you have any test records? I'm not sure of your cartridge's VTF - is it specified at 2.7g or is there a range eg from Xg to Yg?

The recommended VTF is 2.5, but I've made a habit of tracking at the maximum spec'd on account of the lightweight arm I use...a Mission 774. The sound is ok but not exceptional, same with tracking. I do have a test record I use to check tracking ability and system resonance. The cartridge performs typically with this arm.

The reason I look at these things with the m'scope is in the hopes of squeezing every ounce of performance out of them. I did try lowering the arm pivot but this didn't seem to improve matters, though when this is done other factors come into play, some of which could adversely offset any gains.

....i keep my arm adjusted approx. parallel to the disc surface and don't take things that serious.

This is fair advice, but I've learned in some cases a good cartridge can be made to sound great by paying close attention to the VTA/SRA. I'm still new at this and have much to learn.

Does the rake angle change/improve during playback, when friction/drag is in play ?

That's a good question. I've always assumed one or two degrees was a fair guess, but in this instance even 3 or 4 degrees wouldn't right the angle. The m'scope has a video capture function which would come in useful for exploring this question further.

The stylus is well set onto the cantilever. There are no obvious problems with the pickup, other than what's apparent in the image above.

Actually the VTA is defined from needle tip to suspension pivot, so that angle would be even steeper.

Grretings from Munich!

Manfred / lini

Yes indeed.

Greetings from Toronto!

Glenn

[Thomas_A]

Rake and vertical tracking angle is internally related well, at 2° rake, VTA should be 22°. But in total both are +6°, so something is not correct.

[bacobits]

I can't answer anything, except it is expected to be at the correct SRA at the correct VTA (arm level) at the recommended VTF.
I usually let things go at that, when the arm is level. I use the high end of the recommended VTF always.
Too tough to see anything else here even with a magnifier.

That is a beautiful shot of that!!

[Alonski]

I have the same exact issue with my Ortofon Cadenza Bronze... the stylus is way off from perpendicular to the record groove. Actually, I sent Ortofon USA some pictures that showed the stylus at the same angle as yours. They were really nice and gave me an RA# but told me that it would take about two months for the cartridge to do a round trip to the factory in Denmark where they will inspect it. Do they fix it? Do I get a new one? I don't know, but it seems they thought it was a big enough deal to have me send it in.

Ortofon CB side SRA.jpg (81.27 KiB) Viewed 1809 times

I hate to part with it for so long, It sounds really good, but I'm wondering if I'm missing out on GREAT? I did spend $2000 on it, I think I should experience it at its best. So here are my questions:

Ortofon CB SRA in groove.jpg (62.1 KiB) Viewed 1809 times

Has anyone had this situation and heard the difference in sound quality after getting the SRA corrected? Is it worth two months without it?

And RipBlade, what brand USB microscope did you get? I just bought one and it's decent, but you got in so much closer with great clarity! I want that kind of resolution! Please advise.

BTW, I lived in T.O. for a few years and got my audiophile fix at Stereo Factory. Is it still there?

Cheers from SanFrancisco!
Alon

[gg383]

I have an OM 40 Super coming, kind of an inexpensive one compared to some of yours, when I get it I will be looking pretty carefully at the way it sits when it's playing!! Close ups on these old eyes aren't that good so I'll have to look twice as hard!!! Glenn.

[Alec124c41]

Stereo Factory is long gone. Which location did you deal with?

Cheers,
Alec

[Henley]

Good day gents.

Ortofon states the tracking angle of the Kontrapunkt B as 20 degrees. I use this spec as an aid to setting the arm VTA. However, in looking at the cartridge geometry through a USB microscope I see the actual tracking angle is much greater.

The image below shows the cantilever angle and SRA wrt a horizontal surface, arm level and VTF loaded at 2.7gms.

Could someone please explain this discrepancy? Am I not looking at this correctly?

Thanks in advance.

Great photo, is this taken whilst playing? As the tracking angle should be whilst in playing mode.
Let's assume that it is not. The angle that is currently 98.5 degrees should, when tracking force is applied, be at right angles to the playing surface, which in turn would make the tracking angle more in line with the required 20 degrees.

Now, if the photo was taken whilst playing, then something is definitely wrong.

[Alonski]

Alec,

The Stereo Factory I hung out at was just north of the city in Richmond Hill if my memory serves me. I still have the turntable, arm and cartridge I bought there in 1988: The Alphason Sonata with the HR100S-MCS titanium tone arm and Madrigal Carneigie One. This combination beat anything I put it up against in the store... I was completely smitten!

Ah, the good ol' days in T.O.

Cheers,
Alón