RB303 as an upgrade

[Etnier]

I've been reading very positive comments about the 303 here recently- I didn't really understand it was so well regarded. At $500 US, I'm starting to think of it as the next upgrade for my RB300 Planar 3, whereas I had been looking at the Moth 700 (RB700) at $100 more. The 700 may well be going out of production anyhow.

Thoughts on this move?? Nobody talks about arm upgrades for older, lesser Regas here. It's all aftermarket subplatters, platters, the like. I have the GrooveTracer sub and counterweight, white belt. The only other option I see would be moving these over to a used TTPSU P5, but even used this would involve much more money.

Presumably the arm comes with mounting templates. Has anyone drilled out a single-hole Rega plinth for the 3-point arms? To paraphrase Eric Idle... what's it like?

[watercourse]

I like how you think!

I only have a three-point mounted arm now, but I have scanned a template I made of my P5 plinth layout, which includes the three-point screw holes, the arm post hole, and the main bearing, with a scan of a metal ruler with markings to the 1/100", to ensure accurate scale when you actually print it out and use it as a template. I did this to make up a carbon fiber "arm board" (aka brace), which fit perfectly.

BTW, you need the bearing and post hole correctly located in relation to each other to get the screw holes in the right place, otherwise your arm will not end up parallel to the side of the plinth when it is in the arm rest.

I believe that the RB700 post diameter is the same as the RB300/303, but you should probably enlist some confirmation of this from the AudioMods or Audio Origami folks here.

The template I made up has a much larger arm post hole because I use the aftermarket VTAF, but assuming the same post diameter on the arms, you won't be messing with this anyway, you only need to find out where to sink the screws. Or when you make your template, just use the same pivot point I used to draw the arm post hole, and simply redraw the post hole to the correct diameter.

I'd be happy to send this to you in either pdf or jpeg format, just let me know.

Wilson

[Etnier]

Thanks for this, and your kind offer. I do have email already in to a vendor asking some of these tech questions.

BTW, you need the bearing and post hole correctly located in relation to each other to get the screw holes in the right place, otherwise your arm will not end up parallel to the side of the plinth when it is in the arm rest.

I'm having trouble parsing this. Can you explain it in more depth?

[watercourse]

Yes, but I realize I am probably making this more complicated than it needs to be.

The bottom line is that the arm base needs to be installed so that the arm is parallel to the right side of the plinth when in the armrest. This can only happen if the three "legs" of the mount are oriented correctly - the "apex" of the triangle should point towards the rear of the table.

You can easily see this if you look at pics. You likely don't need the template to do the job, you can probably just buy the arm, send the post through the existing hole, and mark out where the three screws need to go on the plinth. I.e., eyeing it is probably good enough.

If you want to be retentive about it, I guess like I am, I'm happy to send the template to you.

[Etnier]

Thanks for this. I know what you're talking about now: it's like the issue of tightening an RB300's nut in the same way, taking care that the arm is parallel, right?

[watercourse]

That's right. Phew!

The template might help in the event that the triangle "base" is not perfectly parallel to the front and back edges of the plinth, but this is really an aesthetic issue, not a performance-related one.

[Etnier]

Well, I've 'pulled the trigger' as they say. Sadly, I'm going in for hand surgery soon so it may be a few weeks before I can tackle the install. But there seemed to be discrepancy on RB303 pricing in the US, with half the dealers charging $495 and half $595. I figured I'd order before they all fell in line with the higher price.

BTW: discussion of drill-through mounting of 3-point arms here:
viewtopic.php?t=35987

[Etnier]

The RB303 arrived today and I was able to install it before the surgery. Here are some installation notes.

As to Watercourse's concerns above:

As best I could see, the two mounting holes closest to the cartridge are set at 90 degrees to the axis of the arm's hardware: the bridge which runs out to the armrest.

So I slid an artist's triangle in to engage the side of the turntable and those two holes, and clamped it in place:

Marking for drilling was not too difficult: I used a mechanical pencil, which just made it through the mount to the plinth. (Rotate the tonearm for access to all three mounting holes.) Once I had gently tapped in starting points with a punch (to counteract 'walking' across the laminate), I used a 5/32" bit.

I used 2" 6-32 screws (tops sanded, primed and sprayed satin black), flat washers and thumbscrews. They match 50mm in length, but could have been half an inch shorter.

Interestingly, the phono cable is so large on this arm that it's very hard to get flat as it exits the tonarm- flat enough not to become a fourth foot. The supplied mounting clamp has to be located close to the center of the rear of the plinth so the cable clears the new mounting screws.

The antiskate isn't mentioned much in the instructions. It's a round knob unlike the 300's sliding control, but the mechanism must be similar. What looks like a knob is really a plunger you move in and out to adjust antiskate. This took me a little while to figure out.

I am currently running an SAE 1000e cartridge. The cartridge mounting slots on the RB303 are just a bit too short to let me extend the SAE out enough to properly line up on my MFSL Geo-Disc. The stylus tip sits on the edge of the hole it's supposed to be sitting in. Tough nooooogies...

My GrooveTracer counterweight simply slid onto the Rega Planar 3's RB300 end stub. Frank tells me I will have to install the GrooveTracer stub to use his weight on my new arm; it doesn't fit as of now. I'm going to tackle that later on, probably tomorrow.

That's what I've got for now.

[watercourse]

Excellent news! Thanks for the update!

Interesting news about the slots - are they the same length as those on the 300? I had no trouble aligning even to Lofgren B on the 700 with the 1000lt. Does this mean you haven't been able to listen to it yet?

Just as an aside, if you were to use shims, the extra screw lengths might come in handy.

[Etnier]

Again, the stylus just misses hitting the alignment point on the GeoDisc.
I have listened to it and it sounds fine. I think it sounds notably better, but I'm pretty fatigued (various reasons for that).

I want to change that end stub, but it's a nervewracking undertaking. I'd hate to blow out my brand-new bearings.

Good point about the shims...

[RP3user]

I've just come across your thread, Etnier and I think it a bold move on your part. You may even start a new trend in upgrades

I use an SAE cartridge as well and mine was set up using a Geo-Disc. I still have a little bit of adjustment left on slots of the RB303 arm.

Be warned the end-stubs in the RB303's are really tight.

Graham

[RP3user]

Again, the stylus just misses hitting the alignment point on the GeoDisc.
I have listened to it and it sounds fine. I think it sounds notably better, but I'm pretty fatigued (various reasons for that).

I want to change that end stub, but it's a nervewracking undertaking. I'd hate to blow out my brand-new bearings.

Good point about the shims...

Changing the stub is best left for another day if your fatigued.

I run mine without any shims and it sounds great.

Graham

[Etnier]

Yeah, well you should read the text in the RB303 instructions about VTA adjustment. It sounds like the cry of a person who's worked their life to make a great product and is being driven crazy by the obsessive nitpicking complaints of others. I meant to scan and OCR the text but I ran out of steam.

Let's face it, if the crew at Rega weren't so good at what they do, they wouldn't have the following they do. We probably wouldn't be having this discussion. They might even be right about VTA.

[Etnier]

Allright: quick report on what I think is going on with the 303-

I am a big believer in a/b/x testing and a real pessimist about going through the time required to put in a tonearm and come back with any reasonable comparison to what was heard before. Also, this weekend I reinstalled my 'new' SAE 1000e, replacing a fresh Ortofon 2M Blue. That said:

• I sense much better, sweeter articulation of transients across the spectrum, bringing things to greater immediacy.
• Things which push out in the spectrum, like the CS&N remastered LP's lower midrange bloom, and splash and and crash cymbals in different albums, push more. Articulation is higher for things like acoustic guitar and drums overall. Given that, I put on some MFSL Sintatra box set stuff to see what happened to vocals and they basically stayed the same in terms of immediacy and presence (as I recall from the day before). I expected more, but no.
• King Crimson's "Beat", from the 1980's, seemed a bit more bright and aggressive than I recalled. Not a good thing.
• The real revelation came when I put an immaculate vintage Jeff Beck Group LP on my (Paradigm in-wall) kitchen speakers. The high-hat on "Ice Cream Cakes" was very in-your-face (it always is), but: throughout the first side the band just sang. There's no other word for it. My NS1000's define things so well that it's possible to get caught up in details. The lesser kitchen system really made it clear what the RB303 contributes.

The RB303 just brings everything that has to do with time much closer. Words like "sing" and "sweet" come to mind a lot. In a way, it's a perfect match to the SAE 1000, which while I feel it has a lot of authority and presence, lacked my Ortofon 2M Blue's sparkle. The SAE made the Ortofon sound cheap, but I missed that liveliness. The 303 brings that back in a better, much better-defined way.

I have never, seriously never written such vague poorly-defined slop in my life, but it's the best I can do. I do think the RB303 is a great move for owners of RB300 arms.