Portable Turntable, Crosley Revolution

[Macflyer]

Hello,

newbie on the forums. Nice meeting all of you.


Have been collecting vinyl for almost ten years. Used to have a Sony turntable back home, I don't remember the model. It's still at home in Europe and won't make it to the Americas that easily anytime soon.

Anyways, since I've been living here I did buy the occasional record but never got around to buy another nice system. My life has become kinda hectic, lots of travelling etc. This has also been reflected in my ways of listening to music: ipod on highly portable ipod dock (a better one than the usual crowd but still).

So, not until recently that I saw and heard of the Crosley Revolution aka Sound Burger aka Mister Disc. I started digging for reviews and also came across this forum. I read another thread on here before. All of them pretty much sum it up:

1) Forget Crosley
2) Avoid Crosley

This is due to the cheaper technology they are infamous for. Ceramic cartdrige, high tracking forces.

Now, I dared to write them today via email and asked them about the cartdrige and tracking force for the Revolution.

They called me back to my voice mail some hours later and left this info:

Revolution comes with a magnetic cartdrige and a tracking force of less than 2 gramms. Diamond stylus (i think it's a conical one).

What do you make of this information? Can we dare to put the occasional record on it?

I find the Revolution intriguing for some occasional record listening. I don't have a great system right now and most likely I have to move continents in less than five months to South America before maybe going to the US in 2013/14. I do love me some vinyl but it's useless if only guarded inside a shelf. And, I don't want another system become stranded somewhere because of me moving around.

I'm sure there's some better replacement needle by some 3rd party that could improve upon the quality. But magnetic and less than 2 gramms doesn't sound to me like a terrible disc cutter.


Your thoughts?

Thanks.

[1200y3]

The problem is really in the tonearm bearings and the housing of the cartridge. The ceramic is really only limited by its build quality. After all, any other cartridge could not perform as well with the stylus masses that a ceramic uses. The ceramic is actually the cousin to the strain guage. The biggest difference is that the strain guages have solid bodies and huge damping blocks which reduce its output to the point where it needs a preamp. Some good strain guages transmit stylus movement through the compliance block.

High tracking forces are not always limitations, but they require superior designs, such as that of the Gray 108B tonearm, whith its unipivot and silicone trough pillar. Also, the incredible low mass needed for magnetic cartridges is not necessarilly essential for great stereo on a ceramic. But don't get me wrong, as Astatic used a "floating head" magentically damped cartridge to be superior in its day. Today only Dynavector is one that uses the priciple.

Anyhow, if you don't believe in the practicality of the cheapest ceramic systems, use an IPOD, and try to fix it yourself.

The fact that the ceramic has a lowering impedance as the frequecy raises makes this a treat to some audiophiles, but admittedly, the bass may be poorer.

[Macflyer]

Appreciate your explanations on ceramic.

As you can tell I'm not an expert, just a kid with a pod and some records

I was buying into cheaply made ceramic cart on cheaply made tonearm and a stylus tracking with 4 gramms or so is bad for your vinyl.

So, not from the standpoint of hifi but of ipod sonic qualities, is it far fetched to believe a record played on a Revolution will be suffering less wear and tear with above mentioned specs than on any other Crosley et al cheaply made ceramic carts on cheaply made tonearms nd high tracking forces?

[1200y3]

These modern low priced units don't have the amounts of weights the old ones did, but I doubt they will be better than the classic BSRs of yesterday. The new turntables may not be very destructive, but they aren't high fidelity by any means.

Most wear and tear that I have heard was on second hand records. Dammaged elliptical styli are worse because the stylus tip has to be fine enough to bite deep into the groves in order to damage the record.

Tests have to be done to prove if the new turntables damage records.

BUT HONESTLY, THESE TURNTABLES I HAVE BEEN DISCUSSING ARE REALLY ONLY SUPPOSED TO BE FOR OCASIONAL OR ONE TIME "RIPPING".

Much of the damage we hear came from playing too many times in one day, record changer repeating, stereo records played on a "mono specific" system, improper record care and cleaning, old brass or steal styli from early Ronette style cartridges, etc. Rememeber that compliance wasn't used on many ceramic styli. Another reason for damage could be from the console speakers vibrating the heavy arm with poor bearings. But the only way to learn is by experiencing old phonographs, because some have such high needle talk that the damage can be heard in real time at the source.

I can mention platter/spindle quality and platter mats must have an effect as well. But rememeber the ancient turntables had steel platters with lousy rubber mats and weak mounting bosses. It doesn't sound safe for fragile belongings.

[Coffee Phil]

Hi Macflyer,

That Crosley looks very similar to the JVC models which you mentioned. One wonders if they bought the fixtures and molds from JVC. If it is the JVC with an RF modulator and USB interface it is a deal. If it is just the JVC as it was it is still is a smoking deal. I have a Mister Disk and while I wouldn't put it up against my Kenwood KD 500 or my Beogram 3000 it is not a POC. It has a decent cartridge, arm, decent speed stability and actually sounds OK.

On the chance that it could be the Mister Disk resurrected I would probably be tempted to take a chance.

Phil

Hello,

newbie on the forums. Nice meeting all of you.


Have been collecting vinyl for almost ten years. Used to have a Sony turntable back home, I don't remember the model. It's still at home in Europe and won't make it to the Americas that easily anytime soon.

Anyways, since I've been living here I did buy the occasional record but never got around to buy another nice system. My life has become kinda hectic, lots of travelling etc. This has also been reflected in my ways of listening to music: ipod on highly portable ipod dock (a better one than the usual crowd but still).

So, not until recently that I saw and heard of the Crosley Revolution aka Sound Burger aka Mister Disc. I started digging for reviews and also came across this forum. I read another thread on here before. All of them pretty much sum it up:

1) Forget Crosley
2) Avoid Crosley

This is due to the cheaper technology they are infamous for. Ceramic cartdrige, high tracking forces.

Now, I dared to write them today via email and asked them about the cartdrige and tracking force for the Revolution.

They called me back to my voice mail some hours later and left this info:

Revolution comes with a magnetic cartdrige and a tracking force of less than 2 gramms. Diamond stylus (i think it's a conical one).

What do you make of this information? Can we dare to put the occasional record on it?

I find the Revolution intriguing for some occasional record listening. I don't have a great system right now and most likely I have to move continents in less than five months to South America before maybe going to the US in 2013/14. I do love me some vinyl but it's useless if only guarded inside a shelf. And, I don't want another system become stranded somewhere because of me moving around.

I'm sure there's some better replacement needle by some 3rd party that could improve upon the quality. But magnetic and less than 2 gramms doesn't sound to me like a terrible disc cutter.


Your thoughts?

Thanks.

[Macflyer]

@1200y3:

thanks for pointing out the various sources of additional wear.

@Phil:

it looks exactly like the Sound Burger, doesn't it?

As the Sound Burger was never meant to be the crown of high fidelity, the Revolution isn't most certainly either.

But, how does your Mister Disk fair for the occasional vinyl session?

A problem with Crosley's Revolution could maybe the speed. Some do mention problems, others don't. But then, there should be a screw somewhere to adjust it properly, shouldn't there?

[beat_truck]

It's still probably a piece of crap being Crosley, but if you're looking at a small portable, Google "Crosley Spinnerette". It uses the Audio Technica 3600 cartridge which has elliptical and 3 mil 78 styli available. It's one of the very few portables that uses a decent magnetic cartridge. I wouldn't mind having one for occasional portable use.

[Coffee Phil]

Hi Macflyer,

I bought the Mister Disc to use in a portable stereo system which I built for my wife to use when she was a classroom general music teacher. It all fit into a suitcase. It was two modified Radio Shack Minimus 7 speakers, the Mister Disc, a Sony D5 portable CD player, and a ~15 Watt / channel amplifier which I built. I was rather proud of this system. For playing vinyl it was way better than those industrial strength record chewers they got from the teacher supply places.

About a year ago I checked it out and found it needed belts and lubrication. I changed the belts and lubed it. I checked it out and it worked so it went back on the shelf. Some time today after I finish the stuff I have to do I'll hook it up to my stereo system and compare it to the Kenwood and report.

Phil

@1200y3:

thanks for pointing out the various sources of additional wear.

@Phil:

it looks exactly like the Sound Burger, doesn't it?

As the Sound Burger was never meant to be the crown of high fidelity, the Revolution isn't most certainly either.

But, how does your Mister Disk fair for the occasional vinyl session?

A problem with Crosley's Revolution could maybe the speed. Some do mention problems, others don't. But then, there should be a screw somewhere to adjust it properly, shouldn't there?

[Macflyer]

@Beat_truck:

Didn't know about the Spinerette and the Ars Audio cart. It could be then, the Revolution uses the same one!? We're getting closer to unveil a hidden gem

@Coffee:

interesting project and great built. Thanks for comparing. Now, you will need to get a Revolution and compare it to the Mister Disc

[Coffee Phil]

Hi Macflyer,

I set up the Mister Disc and put on a record of Johnny Guarnieri Playing some Duke Ellington. Piano music is pretty unforgiving of wow.

The wow was pretty bad. I know I would never have excepted something like what it was doing. I figured that the belts had taken a set so I just left it turning as I went about the stuff I had to do. When I came back to check it had stopped. The platter is very stiff to turn by hand. Something must be wrong with the platter bearing. I will have to take it apart to see what is wrong.

There is an adjustment potentiometer for each speed. There is no closed loop for the speed. The motor is a permanent magnet DC brush type driven by a negative impedance active source to partly cancel out the motor winding resistance. This approach was used by many car tape players and works better than you might expect.

Phil

@Beat_truck:

Didn't know about the Spinerette and the Ars Audio cart. It could be then, the Revolution uses the same one!? We're getting closer to unveil a hidden gem

@Coffee:

interesting project and great built. Thanks for comparing. Now, you will need to get a Revolution and compare it to the Mister Disc

[keiko5]

Another "portable" to consider is the vintage Sony PS-Q7. I have one and I have been very impressed with its quality and performance. It takes a special cartridge available only with a conical stylus but it sounds much better than it should. It is a direct drive, with a built in preamp for headphones, no amp needed. I have this set up in our living room and have powered Bose computer speakers plugged into the headphone jack which gives very adequate volume. There is an output jack on the back that bypasses the preamp, so you can treat it like a regular turntable if you choose. It is not battery operated so you need electricity, but it has a very small footprint and is completely self contained. Good examples are getting harder to find, but if you can locate one I think you will be very pleased.

[Macflyer]

The Sony is indeed a conversation piece. But as you say, I would think they go for ridiculous money.

Well, I'll have to see.

@Phil: a pity the state of things with your Mister Disc. But then, it needs some more usage again

[Coffee Phil]

Hi Macflyer,

I have mixed feelings about the Mister Disc crapping out. Of course I'm bummed that it is broken but at least it suggests that something was going south when I noticed the unacceptable wow before its demise.

Now if I attempt to turn the platter by hand it takes a fair bit of torque and makes a scraping noise.

I'll try to find time to take it apart tomorrow to see what is up with it. This thing has a platter bearing worthy of a "real" turntable and not much more than a year ago I lubed it with white lithium grease. I'll try to fix what is wrong and give it another go.

Phil

The Sony is indeed a conversation piece. But as you say, I would think they go for ridiculous money.

Well, I'll have to see.

@Phil: a pity the state of things with your Mister Disc. But then, it needs some more usage again

[keiko5]

The Sony is indeed a conversation piece. But as you say, I would think they go for ridiculous money.

You may be confusing the PS-Q7 with the PS-F5. the PS-Q7 is not a vertical player, but a mini turntable that was designed to be part of the Sony Heli mini-stereo system. They can be had for <$200 in good condition. As I mentioned, it is not a true portable because it needs to be plugged in, but it performs amazingly well. It may be a viable alternative for you. Here is a recent thread:

http://www.vinylengine.com/turntable_forum/viewtopic.php?f=18&t=29343

Kevin