pulsetsar wrote:cafe latte wrote:The fact that NO manufacture does this speaks volumes.
Maybe it's like some pharmaceuticals on the market. If they are not superior to what's already out there then that's a death sentence to the potential for profits, so instead of paying for head-to-head studies pharmaceutical companies just show the difference with placebo. There's too much at stake for them.cafe latte wrote: Also the problem with the sort of demo you attended is you, basically our quite rubbish human brain. It is fact that the brain cant remember sonic differences it heard a few seconds ago, it even has trouble with an instant switch and needs instant swaps to be repeated to pick up differences.
It may be true for the kinds of subtle differences that appear with cables (or the "alleged" differences as you would say) but I don't think that is a generalizable statement about the human brain, though I don't know the cognitive science literature behind it. I haven't seen anything about cables specifically, but Harman International has been doing blinded trials with speakers in their listening room for some time that confirms the ability of people to consistently discriminate between speakers from sound alone (if you haven't read/heard about this this setup, do a google search; it's remarkable and rigorous - they have a motorized rotating floor that puts speakers into position behind an optically opaque but acoustically transparent screen). They have looked at whether musical preference (jazz, classical, rock, etc), ethnicity, gender, etc. make any difference in whether a certain person is more or less likely to prefer a certain quality of speaker. What they found is that all people universally prefer certain qualities in speakers and rank them as better when they perform better in these domains, and it's the usual stuff we think of (mostly flat frequency response, phase accuracy, etc). Trained listeners did perform better than untrained ones in some respects. However, it wasn't like people who listened to classical wanted the flat response and those who like rock / hip hop wanted a bass emphasis or that they picked between speakers in a fashion that was no better than chance. Here is a link to one of their studies that illustrates a few of the findings (but not all). Great reading:
Differences in Performance and Preference of Trained versus Untrained Listeners in Loudspeaker Tests: A Case Study: http://www.aes.org/e-lib/download.cfm?ID=12206&name=harman
ld wrote:Would your opinion of plausibility change if you discovered that peak mains current does not change with sound level in power amps, and the shortest mains current pulses happen at zero output ? Here's how it really works :
cafe latte wrote:You cant seriously think that a positive proven study would not be good for sales of a cable.
ld wrote:pulstar wrote:If you go through this in the practice mode and find you are not getting about 80-90% of the answers correct, then you are probably not going to hear the kinds of subtle differences others claim are present between cables.
Anybody remember Rocky9, in which we demonstrated that results of purely behavioural based test questions can be an excellent predictor of whether one is prone to perceive 'diferences' in cables ? Questions which involve no listening, and have nothing to do with hifi in any sense at all.
So one can take a psychometric questionaire which will predict pretty well whether one is vulnerable to perceive such things. It has nothing to do with hearing, or cognition. It is an issue with psychology of perception, and expectation bias.
Plus, you've entirely ignored the latest revelation that mains cable current doesn't actually change, no matter what sound is being played, for many amplifiers............this is way too significant not to comment on !
pulsetsar wrote:ld wrote:Would your opinion of plausibility change if you discovered that peak mains current does not change with sound level in power amps, and the shortest mains current pulses happen at zero output ? Here's how it really works :
This was a great explanation; thanks. If this is indeed true for all amps, then it certainly makes the idea that audible differences between power cables result from current rise/response time implausible. I'll have to digest this, and the article to which you linked, a bit more, though.
pulsetsar wrote:cafe latte wrote:You cant seriously think that a positive proven study would not be good for sales of a cable.
No, I don't think that, which is why I didn't write it.
pulsetsar wrote:..I'm not sure if your comment on the psychometric questionnaire above is related to the software program I referenced or a separate point?
cafe latte wrote:... You have to admit though if any cables company had any chance of a double blind test working in their favor they wouls all have set them up.