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Cleaning up 78s

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Cleaning up 78s

Postby tinpanalley » 24 Feb 2012 01:04

Hi all,
I'm taking a 78 recording (and several others that I'm transferring) and trying to clean it up. I'm capturing the audio with Audacity at 32-bit IEEE float, as a stereo recording from a 78 stylus on my turntable at 45 then changing the speed, finishing it off with inverting the RIAA curve.
My question is about cleaning up from this point forward understanding of course that one method simply won't work in every case.

I have Audacity, Sound Forge, DeNoise and ClickRepair. I've tried following this to a certain degree (http://manual.audacityteam.org/index.ph ... pm_records) but I have no way of knowing if there's something I'm missing, if it's out of date, if there's a better way, etc. Mastering, I'm ok with. It's just the cleaning part I want to know with the aim of archiving these transfers.

Any thoughts?
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Re: Cleaning up 78s

Postby Alec124c41 » 24 Feb 2012 05:19

The guy who made ClickRepair has another freebie called Equalizer, which is specifically to correct the curve of various recording formats. You pretty much have to go to his site, because searching for it will get you far too much other stuff.
As for cleaning, 78s are shellac, so do not use alcohol. Water softens it, so it must have time to dry thoroughly.

Cheers,
Alec
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Re: Cleaning up 78s

Postby tinpanalley » 24 Feb 2012 05:27

Cool. That's good to know. I was correcting the RIAA curve with Audacity. What I was wondering is if there are particular things people suggest for cleaning the sound up once recorded. Not physically cleaning the record (I should have been more clear).
Thanks!
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Re: Cleaning up 78s

Postby Blue Angel » 24 Feb 2012 12:47

Hi

The "less" you clean after recording is often a better option. I do the unthinkable during playback - wetting them with a few drops of dishwash liquid soap in a cup of distilled water.

It's the rinsing and drying afterwards which becomes a pita.

ba
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Re: Cleaning up 78s

Postby ebrjvd » 26 Feb 2012 13:55

tinpanalley wrote:I'm taking a 78 recording (and several others that I'm transferring) and trying to clean it up. I'm capturing the audio with Audacity at 32-bit IEEE float, as a stereo recording from a 78 stylus on my turntable at 45 then changing the speed, finishing it off with inverting the RIAA curve.


You should either use a linear preamp, or do the inverse RIAA before any speed changes.
After the speed change, frequencies don't correspond any longer with RIAA time constants.
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Re: Cleaning up 78s

Postby Werner » 26 Feb 2012 19:13

That's why he has to visit the ClickRepair site, beacuse the free Equaliser application can do the RIAA warping between any two speeds.
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Re: Cleaning up 78s

Postby ripblade » 27 Feb 2012 01:54

I recorded mine at 33-1/3 rpm, removed the RIAA eq with a Diamond Cut DC6 filter profile, then declicked the file agressively several times in Wave Corrector. After this, the file was saved at the correct speed and re-equalized again in DC6. This was processed in WC once more to remove large clicks/pops, remove side change gaps and to apply track breaks.

It was a bit of work but the result was pretty good. Most of the 'frying bacon' came off as a constant tape hiss that was relatively easy to ignore.
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Re: Cleaning up 78s

Postby tinpanalley » 27 Feb 2012 23:44

Hey guys,
I've got my wires straightened now. I read more and now I realise I have to do the RIAA inverting first, and THEN change speeds. Once I do that, I think I'm going to use DeNoise and Click Repair because I'm familiar with them and they have given me great sounding transfers in the past, albeit from 33-1/3s, but still.
- Would you say Wave Corrector is better?
- Do you think it's crucial that the click and noise removal be done before changing the speed from 45 to 78?
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Re: Cleaning up 78s

Postby ripblade » 28 Feb 2012 01:17

My opinion? Yes, WC (Professional Edition, that is) is better. It has more to do with the ergonomics of the program than anything. It works about the same for detecting clicks, but the tools provided for finding, applying and/or changing corrections are better, IMO. The colour spectrogram for example, or the programmable hotkeys for moving about the file, such as forward/back one rotation. You'd be surprised how handy these are.

The reason I chose to declick the file initially at the record speed was because the detector seems to be more effective at higher frequencies. Cleaning these up beforehand reduced much of the 'frying bacon' down to a more continuous 'hiss' when the speed was adjusted. Had I not done this I think the detector would've had a more difficult time of it.

Below is a link to a sample of the recording in mp3 format. Other than the necessary equalization and click correction mentioned above, there is no other filtering or processing of any kind. The music remains vibrant and dynamic...as much as the original disc will allow.

http://www.mediafire.com/?woii5g8wcpjb9hg
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Re: Cleaning up 78s

Postby tinpanalley » 28 Feb 2012 08:26

Wow.... I can't believe that's a 78! Is much of the fidelity lost in the cleanup or does it sound very much the same as the record?
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Re: Cleaning up 78s

Postby tinpanalley » 28 Feb 2012 21:49

What's the general thinking with clean-up of sound? Noise reduction first, click removal second? Or the other way around?
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Re: Cleaning up 78s

Postby ripblade » 29 Feb 2012 01:12

Here is a sample of the original, unedited except for the reverse equalization, speed change, and 500hz turnover w/8db rolloff. (I believe this is what Victor used when the record was made in '47 or '48). No declicking at any stage.

http://www.mediafire.com/?4abq5zb442q2ad4

Notice how WC was able to remove much of the groove damage that accompanies the violin. Although the program can remove some of the distortion caused by mistracking, this level of repair would not have been possible if it had been done at normal speed. There is also a noticeable reduction in treble as well, but this doesn't bother me as much as the distortion, and also provides for what amounts to hiss reduction. Had I used a noise reduction alorithm to reduce hiss (and DC6 has a very good one), the result would have been much less palatable to me.

Concerning the use of noise reduction, it is suggested that providing the cleanest noise sample possible is best. Declick first is recommended to remove spurious dynamic transients in the sample.
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Re: Cleaning up 78s

Postby tinpanalley » 06 Mar 2012 20:23

I'm not understanding how to create my own curves. The RIAA curve is programmed into Audacity and I see the values that other record label curves have but I don't get how to turn those values into curves?
Can anyone help? I can't really afford to buy one of those pre-amps with RIAA and other EQs included in them.
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Re: Cleaning up 78s

Postby kilroychile » 13 Mar 2012 03:02

personally, I clean vinyls with water and soap, to loose the dirt.

then after dry the vinyl, if the disc is too much scratched I use a microfiber with silicone sprayed on surface, then apply to vinyl to soften the noises on play.

Bye.
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Re: Cleaning up 78s

Postby Coffee Phil » 15 Mar 2012 20:06

Hi Tinpanalley,

There may be software which will remove the RIAA EQ, change the speed, then put in the EQ you need. As you can tell from my other post I'm not too knowledgeable about software.

One suggestion I'll make is to sum the channels to mono as soon in the chain as possible. If your preamp has a mono switch try that. Any vertical component in a 78 RPM record is just noise and distortion. I have found that playing most mono records (78s as well as Lps) in mono makes a big difference.

Is 78 RPM out of the question with your turntable? If you can get the turntable to spin at 78 RPM (actually 78.26 in the US after electrical came out) you can use a mono preamp like mine which sums the channels and gives several choices for EQ. I can give you a schematic of it if you would like.

Phil

tinpanalley wrote:Hi all,
I'm taking a 78 recording (and several others that I'm transferring) and trying to clean it up. I'm capturing the audio with Audacity at 32-bit IEEE float, as a stereo recording from a 78 stylus on my turntable at 45 then changing the speed, finishing it off with inverting the RIAA curve.
My question is about cleaning up from this point forward understanding of course that one method simply won't work in every case.

I have Audacity, Sound Forge, DeNoise and ClickRepair. I've tried following this to a certain degree (http://manual.audacityteam.org/index.ph ... pm_records) but I have no way of knowing if there's something I'm missing, if it's out of date, if there's a better way, etc. Mastering, I'm ok with. It's just the cleaning part I want to know with the aim of archiving these transfers.

Any thoughts?
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