M92e + (N97xe vs. N97xE SAS) : Difference?

[pogo]

Hiya

I've seen numerous recommendations of pairing a JICO N97xe SAS stylus onto an M92e body, which definitely is intriguing.

My question is the difference between SAS stylus and the regular Shure stylus. Is the difference in performance way more than the price difference would allude to?martronics stencil maker

Are there any other shure styluses (SAS or regular) that would also go in that M92e body? I'm not sure how many other styli fall within the VTF roughly that of the T4p spec?

Thanks

So does the manual for this thing talk about cartridge weight? There's no manual in the library (BTW, if you can upload one the forum would be appreciative). There is one for the SL-BD22D. It says specs are for a cartridge weight of 6 grams. The specs for the M92e are 7.3 grams. So unless the specs for you TT are different, 1.3 grams at the end of the arm are significant. Is the M92 the cartridge what's always been there? The stylus suggestions are great, but if you really can't adjust VTF, I'd go with whatever the manufacturer put on it.

[dlaloum]

All P-mount cartridges are 6g...

The normal P-mount half inch adapters are between 1.3g and 1.5 - which would account for the 7.3g spec.

In p-mount mode it would be 6g (all my Shure p-mounts come in at between 5.9g and 6.1g)
With the SAS N97xE stylus mounted it comes in at 6.3g - the additional 0.3g happens to be the approximate amount needed to compensate for the brush - so it remains a good match for a non-adjustable p-mount arm

bye for now

David

[jkilla]

Just out of curiousity, were the JICO styli always at the price point they are at now? I could have sworn I read something that stated that the prices shot up sometime in 2011

The thing I've realised about the Pfanstiehl needles is that there seem to be just as many people who rave about them as the number of people who hate them.

They are at a price point where I feel like I can take a gamble on them, given the potential payoff.

Bran, that N104E looks like a good buy as well, but how far off from the performance of an N110HE or N111HE would it be?

[dlaloum]

You are quite right, two years ago, Jico pricing was substantially lower.

My gut feeling (no substantiation for this...) - is that the retailers had some strong words with Jico, and their direct pricing had to rise to allow the retailers a reasonable margin.... so blame Thakker, LPGear, Turntableneedes etc....

In the overall scheme of things they are well priced in the market for the performance they provide.
2 to 3 years ago the Jico styli were exceptional value... now they are merely good value.

bye for now

David

[Bran Kulez]

jkilla,

The performance of a stylus depends on many factors. Tip geometry, although significant, is only one factor. I'm not an expert, but from what I've read, a hyper elliptical (HE) stylus has a narrower profile than an elliptical (E) stylus. The narrower profile will allow the stylus to maneuver in the groove more easily than an elliptical or conical. I have a couple of turntables and several cartridges and styli, mostly Shure, and have found that different recordings benefit from different turntable/cartridge/stylus setups. I don't think that you will be disappointed with any of the suggestions so far.

bk

[dlaloum]

jkilla,

The performance of a stylus depends on many factors. Tip geometry, although significant, is only one factor. I'm not an expert, but from what I've read, a hyper elliptical (HE) stylus has a narrower profile than an elliptical (E) stylus. The narrower profile will allow the stylus to maneuver in the groove more easily than an elliptical or conical. I have a couple of turntables and several cartridges and styli, mostly Shure, and have found that different recordings benefit from different turntable/cartridge/stylus setups. I don't think that you will be disappointed with any of the suggestions so far.

bk

Hi BK,
HE styli tend (with some variation) to have a side (also known as minor) radius of around 0.2mil (5um)... so they are of the same fineness of profile as the best elipticals.
BUT - the major radius is substantially different - and eliptical is around 0.7mil (18um) where the hyperelipticals tend to be 1.5mil (40um) - and this results in the contact patch being a long vertical "line" of contact, rather than a small oval spot.
This allows the stylus to read above and below possible worn areas (great for older records) - and also spreads the load of tracking across a wider surface area, thereby reducing wear on both record and stylus...

HyperEliptical and Shibata are the most basic (and common) line contact type styli - other more sophisticated profiles have an even longer and narrower contact line, but are usually substantially more expensive.

Check out the stylus shapes sticky thread - lots and lots of info there!

bye for now

David

[Bran Kulez]

David,
Thank you for that explanation. Until now, I was picturing the stylus tip in horizontal section, i.e., two dimensions, as though I was reading a floor plan. What I think you are saying is that the major radius, 1.5mil is vertical, as though I'm reading a wall section. The larger radius of the hyper-elliptical has more surface contact with the groove wall vertically than an elliptical or conical.
Is that right?

[dlaloum]

Yep that's it!

Basically the larger the major radius, the longer the length of the contact patch. Ortofon's top of the line Replicant has a major radius of 100um - to the best of my knowledge that is the "widest" stylus on the market today - the overall design is a VanDenHull / FritzGeiger type shape - but wider.

Most of the exotics & the large shibata types are around 75um major radius (Microline, MicroRidge, Namiki, Sas, PathFinder, etc...)

The small shibatas, hyperelipticals, hyperpbolics, and variations thereof (fineline, AT Line Contact, etc..) are around 40um.

All bits of info taken from the legendary stylus shape thread.

bye for now

David

[Bran Kulez]

That's great. Thank you!