Zero 100 Automatic Flaw...

[Ernst3510]

Mmmmmmmh... I will look sunday into my Zero 100 if there is a "spring".
What's concerning part 259: i marked it on the picture, from what i can see from the partslist is this the spring you refer to. The other side has no spring as i remeber, but who knows...



Regards,
Ernst

[chan1]

Hi bertiesme. Yes, it appears as though the tiny spring is missing on your pawl and that I would suggest is at least one of the auto problems. Don't panic yet. PM me and I will help you get that exact part which is #259 tension spring. Too bad. there was a seller on ebay selling all the parts from a Zero removed in a pile for $14.00. By the way, the pawl in question can have a little oil around it as it is spring loaded but the other smaller pawl must be oil free. Your pawl and cam are a little different than mine as there is no hole in the cam or the pawl arm extending through the cam but my spring style should work. Can't quite see enough of the entire pawl in your pic to determine if the styles are in fact the same, however. How is the machine otherwise? Good shape otherwise? Don't worry. We will get your machine to work one way or another.

Best regards, chan

PS: I noticed in your pic that the split ring that holds the pawl in place is not there so is it possible that it flew off during your cleaning and removing of the parts. Have a look around your work area for the spring. I have a dark rug in my work area and spend most of my time looking for dropped parts as they blend in color to my rug. Then my dog, who must be at my side every minute starts walking around and spreads them all over the house which doesn't help. Last thing I dropped was an Empire 999VE stylus, brand new and the dog picked it up and gave it a few chews before spitting it out so I do have a free dog for you if you want her,LOL.

[bertiesme]

-Hi Ernst/Chan -guess what?- I've bought another belt drive model-£21- It's supposed to be immaculate-Meanwhile I'll take the idler drive apart again tomorrow --and try to figure out if it's supposed to have this spring or not-One thing-My belt drive model sounds brilliant -BUT by what I've been reading, although the idler drive is supposedly more desirable, I've got this sneaking feeling that the belt drive sounds better -I have a Lenco L72 and L75. both idler drives, I also have a Lenco L85- belt drive (a model all the Lenco guys pooh-pooh)-but relying on my ears! -I reckon it sounds better-So do you think idler drives have inherently more problems than belt drives?-Even though my first deck was a kit built Connoisseur BD1 in 1969 (shows how old I am)-I still haven't made up my mind which camp I fall into- I suppose if I've not nailed my flag to a particular mast by now, I'm never going to -What do you prefer-Idler drive, belt drive or, heaven forbid, direct drive!?- Regards, Bertie

[bertiesme]

Hi Ernst/Chan- I have at last figured out why the auto isn't working and never will work- I have "borrowed" one of Ernst's pictures to explain- The pawl actuation link wire is missing-If you look at the picture of my deck before I started work on it, you can see it's missing; I am absolutely sure I have not lost it- Perhaps the turntable has been apart before-but without it, it will never function- Ernst was right that there is no spring on the other pawl-only on the first one-I couldn't figure out how it was activated, as I was confused because it's different from the belt drive model-The problem now is trying to find one- of course, if I had an original, perhaps I could fabricate a copy- I suppose I'll have to be satisfied with a totally manual deck-Regards, Bertie

[chan1]

Hi bertiesme. I was incorrect. The 2nd pawl has no spring. Pawl rod is definitely missing. I can hook you up with a US ebay seller that has and probably can provide the missing rod. No problem. PM me.
chan

[Ernst3510]

I'm glad that i have not disassembled my Zero to look after that spring,
Who knows what happpened...

Ernst

PS: concerning idlerdrive vs beltdrive, depends of your personal opinion. I have a Thorens TD166 mkII with SME, a Garrard GT-55 (both are belt-driven)and now my beloved Zero. And the Zero plays imho the best. Sounds better! As i told it's a matter of personal opinion.

Now i'm waiting for my new belt i ordered to fix the Z2000b.

Regards,
Ernst

[Ernst3510]

Hi Chan,

New Belt has arrived!!
No problem with the idler anymore
Strobo is constant and startup is a lot faster compare to the Zero 100.
Just the automatic is NOT functional as ment to be.
You can see in the video, it's starting with no problem, but the arm goes directly to the middle of the platter. Everything on the downside is cleaned, lubricated, cleaned, lubricated...

http://youtu.be/ig_v_2IyBY4

So, at the moment i'm out of options...
Meanwhile i tried to get sound, nope...



As you can see at the pictures i had to do some surgery





Patient still alive.

No rewiring of the arm

Only the f*** automatic now.

Regards,
Ernst

[DSJR]

As the arm is returned in the first part of the auto cycle, it should "click" on the 10 and 12 inch positions before a final "click" at the arm-rest position, which then locks the arm in place when the mech is on the "return" part of the cycle before switch-off. Without taking my AP76 to bits again, would this have anything to do with the linkages on the top plate up near the arm-area? If you remove the platter and actuate the mech part way by hand, starting with the arm at the record-label area. Once engaged with the arm lift operated, slowly move the arm back to its rest by hand, watching the linkages as you go, especially the record-size lever(s) in the tonearm area. Hopefully you'll see what's wrong and be able to deal with it.

Hope this crude explanation above helps a bit...

[Ernst3510]

Thanks for the tip, but i think the problem is in the speed-selector.
When i received the TT, it was broken due transport, the ass who had packed it, forgot to tighten the 2 transportscews, so it was bouncing in his console as a result that the square metalbox, who is holding the idler and the speedcontrol has bent...I'm lookin for a second 2000, but they are really hard to find...

Regards,
ernst

[DSJR]

Oh what a shame.. That 2000 will be one of the rarest models too I reckon, since I don't think many - if any at all - exist in the UK. Is the damaged part totally different to the Zero 100 and related decks and only made for the 2000?

[Ernst3510]

Yep, i tried several parts... At the first sight they are compatibel. Not!
I tried even a 50 Hz pulley of the Zero 100, nope, even the 50Hz strobe is not working on the Z2000 platter.
I put some aluminiumtape on the puley to compensate the difference inspeed between 60Hz and 50Hz, is working but on silent passages on the record you can hear the pulley. Almost impossible to find a 50Hz pulley for the Z2000.
But the mechanical part is fine now, i managed to repair the automatic and it's full working now. The "boxed"part i told, i have bent it open to loosen the part you ment is full working now, even this part had a "tick" from the awful transport from the states to belgium.
Other problem now: sound is working when i start the tt, when the arm is on half the record, 1 channel is dropping out, at the end of the record there is no sound at all. I suspect the wiring in the arm...
Storiy continues...

Regards,
Ernst

[chan1]

Yep, i tried several parts... At the first sight they are compatibel. Not!
I tried even a 50 Hz pulley of the Zero 100, nope, even the 50Hz strobe is not working on the Z2000 platter.
I put some aluminiumtape on the puley to compensate the difference inspeed between 60Hz and 50Hz, is working but on silent passages on the record you can hear the pulley. Almost impossible to find a 50Hz pulley for the Z2000.
But the mechanical part is fine now, i managed to repair the automatic and it's full working now. The "boxed"part i told, i have bent it open to loosen the part you ment is full working now, even this part had a "tick" from the awful transport from the states to belgium.
Other problem now: sound is working when i start the tt, when the arm is on half the record, 1 channel is dropping out, at the end of the record there is no sound at all. I suspect the wiring in the arm...
Storiy continues...

Regards,
Ernst

I do not understand any of your explanation about about the pulley so I will try to address only the wiring problem. Check the cartridge carrier first. Make sure that the 4 contact points on the carrier are making good contact with the tonearm points. With a screw driver, slightly bend the 4 contact arms on the tonearm down so they can make better contact. Then make sure that the contact points on the cartridge carrier are clean and the plastic portion of the carrier that holds them in place is not bent slightly. I will add a pic of what I mean. If that does not help with the sound dropping off then make sure that your RCA wires are making good contact with the connections on the machine. Corrosion here will have the effect you are describing. If that does not help then the problem probably lies with the wires as they exit on the underside of the machine. One or more wires have been stretched or pinched and are intermittently open. Using a continuity tester, and holding one end on the correspondingly correct tonearm contact, move the tonearm and wires until you can find the intermittent wire or wires. If found, perhaps the wire or wires can be shortened enough to eliminate the problem portion. Tedious, yes but it must be done. I have replaced the tonearm wires in one of my zeros and while hard, it was possible but I was lucky enough to find a seller in another state here in the US that had the correct size wires. And that is the problem, finding the correct size as the original wires a micro small with only 3 or 4 conductors smaller than a human hair. Make sure then to inspect the solder connections you have just repaired. Hope this helps. chan



Now to the pic. Mounted on the carrier is an Empire 999VE cartridge with a metal mounting frame. Look at the end that holds the contact points. This is a carrier that I have heated and repaired. When the cartridge frame is mounted to the carrier with the small bolts, it tends to warp the plastic carrier and pull down and away the contact point end thereby leaving a greater distance between the contact on the carrier and contact points on the tonearm. To fix this, I mount the cartridge on the carrier and then slightly heat the plastic on the end with the contacts and hold until cool thereby keeping the carrier flat. It then makes perfect contact with the tonearm contacts. This may or may not be part of your sound problems. At first glance it may not seem possible that a warped carrier could give intermittent channel sound but as the tonearm moves across the lp, it changes the contact stress points and the contacts then loose contact with each other.

[Ernst3510]

Hi Chan,

I don't think it's in the cartridge carrier. As you can see i have a whole wide variety of it and they are working perfect.
Even found an alignment-tool for the c3 carrier (the Z2000 is using the same carrier). So i think it's in the arm. I noticed total failure of the sound when i put the arm high at the beginning of the record.
Wiring is not a problem, i have a spare sl with beltdrive to cannibalise, mechanical almost like the Z2000, so i have a spare wire-set available.
Again a few pictures:



From left to the right: Shure V-15 IV, Pickering XLZ 7500 mkII, Stanton 681 EEE, ADC XLZ, Empire 2500 and a Empire 1000ZE/X (if you ever encounter a guinine stylus, please let me know



Ernst

[chan1]

Hi ernst. So if you have eliminated the carrier as the problem, then possibly there could be simple problem with the wires that are exposed below the machine, but probably higher up were they turn out of the tonearm 90o. If one wire is bad, total replacement is advised. You were really lucky to find an alignment tool, especially to fit the latter style carriers. What do I mean? Compare the carrier I posted with the carrier you posted. Your carrier has to small raised parts on the bottom of the carrier. Mine does not. That means that Garrard made 2 different styles of carriers and therefore must have made 2 different styles of tools. Both styles fit into my Zero 100 tonearm but your style will not fit into my alignment tool. It is possible that your style is for the Z2000 only, I do not know for sure. Glad you posted the pic of the alignment tool as I was in the process of making you one to fit both styles of carriers. The Empire 1000ZE/X is one fine cartridge. Will keep an eye peeled for an original stylus for you. Going to attempt a wire replacement on a spare Z100 tonearm starting today with super small litz wire. Very tricky at the tonearm end. Have done one other arm with positive results.

Later,chan