Is a preamp gonna give me anything?

[rickhoran]

Is a pre-amp going to give me anything? is it worth it?

Rega P-1 with Orotofon MC-1 connected to onkyo SR805. Now I know the MC-1 has a preamp built in, that's why I bought it.

Here is the situation:
I recently got the Rega and Ortofon setup. The sound is great from my onkyo but two things.
1. I have to volume up significantly more than when listening to CD/TV/Blu-ray. I accept that (I think). Can I do something without distorting the sound too much from the TT to get more volume?
2. I remember my records having more bass from a pioneer/bose 301's then to 501's set up I had in the early 80's. Maybe I have become spoiled with the subwoofers, but I remember having a great sounding bass. It seems I am not getting those low ends from vinyl like i remember them. The subwoofers seem almost "disabled" when playing most vinyl. Would a pre-amp help that?

If the cartridge has a preamp can it be connected to another pre-amp?

[kalypso]

The Ortofon MC1 is a high-ouput MC (Moving-Coil) cartridge but does not have a preamp built in.

High output means it is intended to be connected to a phono-input for mm-cartridges. It does not need a dedicated mc-prestage or step-up-transformers like low-output mc's do.

Every input marked as "phono" (MM) should do well with this cartridge. If your receiver has a mm/mc switch, make shure to run it in the "MM" position. The use of the MC-position will overload the input, this will result in distortion.

Of course you must make sure to use the phono-input but not a high-level input like tuner, cd, aux.

If an external preamp makes sense or not depends on the quality of the built-in phono-stage. Usually, those are of lower quality today than they have been decades ago.

regards, kalypso

[pivot]

........Here is the situation:

1. I have to volume up significantly more than when listening to CD/TV/Blu-ray....

Yup, common - different pieces of gear produce different levels of gain and need different settings. In general, the line level sections in newish digital sources tend to put out 3 to 6 db more level then phono pre-amps.

The solution most of us use is.....turn the volume control up or down as needed.

As to what an outboard phono-preamp will give you, odds are good a decent phono-pre will be higher quality sound then the built-in..but you may not get more gain. If the only issue for you is the volume level and not the sound quality I would not bother.

[rickhoran]

Thanx for the information. Looking at the setup and documenation it appears I need a pre-amp.

[rickhoran]

Ok For my Onkyo Tx-NR808 it states the following (and I need some help understanding):
Connect a turntable (MM) that has built-in a phono preamp to TV/CD IN or connect it to PHONO IN with the phono preamp turned
off. If your turntable (MM) doesn’t have a phono preamp, connect to PHONO IN. If your turntable has a moving coil (MC) type cartridge,
you’ll need a commercially available MC head amp or MC transformer to connect to PHONO IN. See your turntable’s manual
for details.


What is "a commercially available MC head amp or MC transformer"?

[kalypso]

What you've got is a so-called "high-output MC" what must be handled as a MM (Moving-Magnet) Cartridge.

The background is that usual MC (Moving-Coil) cartridges have a much lower output (roughly 1/10) than MM-cartridges and need a "MC-Head-Amp" or step-up transformers to raise the output to a value what can be handled by a MM-Input.

A "High-Output-MC" like yours is built in a way that it has an output level like an MM-cartridge does and must be handled like a MM in that sense. An MC-Head-Amp or step-up-transformer is not neccessary. This does not mean that such a cartridge can or must be used with a high-level input, since those do not have a phono-equalisation and too low sensitivity for phono-cartridges. This will cause exactly the problems you have described, low level, low bass etc.

A separate, external phono-preamp does the same thing as the phono-stage what is built in in your receiver, but you can expect a better sound quality. A lot of Phono-Preamps have a switch with wich the unit can be switched from MM to MC. In your case the MM-position must be used.

To make confusion complete: There are turntables on the market today with a built-in phono preamp. Those must be connected to a high-level input. This seems not to be the case in your setup.

As your operation instructions for the receiver says, connect your turntable to the phono-input and you will be fine, i bet.



good luck, kalypso

[rickhoran]

kalypso, thank you for the information. I learned a lot.

I have always had the TT into the phono jack. I never used the TV/CD IN.

I am still wondering if it is needed or worth getting a pre-amp? Which pre-amp is another thread.

When watching TV/BR/CD, having the Volume at "60" is pretty loud. When I listen to vinyl I have it at "80" or above. It is loud and seems pretty clean, but the low ends are lacking.

[kalypso]

When the sound quality is not satisfying, although the turntable is connected right, an external phono-preamp should solve this problem.

There are a lot of units on the market, up from approx. € 50,00 to "unlimited".

For my own, i've got a pro-ject Phono Box II, it's killing me with bass compared with the lousy phono-stage in my amp.

There are as well solutions with a built in analog to digital-converter (USB-Connector) what allow to digitalize/record lp's with a computer (into mp3-format, f.e.) in a relatively comfortable manner.

As your turntable is a rega, the rega fono or fono mini (with USB) maybe a nice choice.

But even with a separate phono-preamp there maybe more or less volume differences between phono and other inputs, depending on the sensitivity of the pre-amp, its output level, the output-level of the cartridge and the level of the individual record itself. This shouldn't be a problem. In my case, phono usually is a bit louder than CD/DVD, what can as well be the other way round.

regards, kalypso