Zero 100 Automatic Flaw...

[chan1]

They are both idler's, but when i'm not mistaken, stands the C for changer and the S for single-play...

Regards,
Ernst

Yes, they are both idlers, but the S stands for single play and the C stands for counter. Has a usage counter and advises when the owner may need to replace the stylus. A rather silly feature in my mind that probably is quite inaccurate and only adds another wheel for the already stressed out machine to turn.

Best regards from the frozen tundra here in the US, chan

[chan1]

Hi bertiesme. I have 2 Zero machines for parts so what I would do with the 60HRz 100S is first of all forget the stepdown to 50HRz. I will tear off the motor, strobe,cords,platter and 60HRz pulley. All the parts from the US machine will work in the 100S except the platter as it has a 60HRZ decal which obviously will not show the correct speed when the machine is running at 50HRz.
I just need to find a Zero100S machine from England in good condition at a reasonable price. !00 pounds sterling is not reasonable for shipping either and for some reason, most British sellers are reluctant to ship within their own country much less to the US.
Later, chan

Sorry about the misleading statement above: Should read: All the parts from the US machine will work including the platter as the 50HRz decal will now work with all the 60HRz UK parts now being replaced.
chan

[bertiesme]

Hi Chan- I don't understand the reluctance to ship to the US, as once it's in the post, provided it's been parcelled up and as long as it's insured,it doesn't matter- There are quite a few countries I wouldn't ship to, but the US isn't one of them- I suppose if the buyer wasn't happy with the purchase it could get stressful.- I've had a go at my belt drive Zero, as it was a complete non runner-and I wanted a practice run-I took the motor apart and the glue had completely failed where the magnet is bonded to the armature-So with that fixed, I took apart most of the moving bits, although it's different in some ways to the idler drives-similar design features are there- well It now runs (ie-the platter turns)-but the arm just stays put and after a bit of mechanical whirring it then sets the arm back down and switches off- OH well I'll have another go tomorrow-There's an awful lot of stuff there, just to put the arm on the record and then pick it up again- I must admit to being one of those who, back in 1980 bought a Thorens TD160 super with an SME arm (which I still have),rather than go down this route. There's nothing to go wrong on the Thorens- I'll keep on till it works though, as like Ernst I like a challenge-I'm glad I've got the Zero belt drive as I'm not going to touch the ZeroS until I've fixed it-I wouldn't want to damage it-Cheers-Bertie

[Ernst3510]

I'll keep on till it works though, as like Ernst I like a challenge-I'm glad I've got the Zero belt drive as I'm not going to touch the ZeroS until I've fixed it-I wouldn't want to damage it-Cheers-Bertie

[bertiesme]

-Just as an added note, with my Zero100 belt drive model, I think my problem with the arm not moving is originating in this part of the mechanism-which I'm about to dismantle-it all seems rather tight- although I'm not sure what a correct amount of resistance in the moving and sliding parts should feel like-Well here goes anyway-Bertie

[chan1]

Hi bertiesme. Just for the record and referring to your last pic and within the red circle, I never had to remove any parts below the right hand split ring. I am not sure they can be removed from the rod emanating from the white metal below. I just soaked with wd and alcohol until it moved and until it was quite floppy and loose. After adding these products to that vertical rod I turned the machine upright so gravity would help it run to the area it must to free the parts. The part just under the right hand split split ring has some movement when pushed to the left as I am sure you can see. After pushing to the left, you will notice that a spring on another part pulls them all back to their original position. If that movement and the other parts it moves is sticky, than that is a source of the tonearm problem. After adding the freeing liquids, and again turning the machine upright, unlock the tonearm and turn the platter clockwise by hand thereby forcing those liquids to get into all the moving parts. In my case, I mounted a cartridge I had without the stylus for an approximate weight on the arm while doing the above procedure. It was necessary to add more cleaners and oils on all the moving parts often while spinning the platter by hand to free up all the parts. Don't force the platter to turn if it is stuck. In that case much preliminary cleaning must be done first as the parts are frozen in place, but even my machine after storage for 36 years was not that frozen.

Question about the tonearm. As it stands now, when you unlock the tonearm from its rest and move it across the platter, does it seem free and easy? If not, then it is possible that the tonearm bearing is gummed up as well. But you can attend to that later if necessary.

All of this assumes that you have oiled the motor shaft and added some oil to cups at either end of the shaft. Do this if you have not. Oil there provides a frictionless turning of the belt with enough power to turn the large cam in normal operation.

See my previous explanations on the part within your red circle that can be removed. I think there is only one. Its the brass part with a shaft that pushes by friction into the white plastic slider. This can be removed by simply forcing it out with a flat screw driver but all parts above must be removed first of course.

I never know if my explanations are clear enough to follow. If not, let me know and I will try to improve them.

Best regards, chan

PS: It may be necessary for me to pay you a personnel visit as I threatened to do with ernst.(LOL) Have a bedroom ready for me. Can I bring my dog too? I can purchase a 100S while I am there.

[bertiesme]

Hi Chan- Thanks for the extra info-It arrived in good time as I've been busy today and didn't get round to looking at the Zero-So with your comments in mind I will not attempt to dismantle below the right hand split ring-I am now convinced that's where my major problems are because it is definitely tight there- The tonearm itself is nice and free and I cleaned and lubricated the motor shaft/cups whilst fixing the motor. If I see a cheap Zero idler deck, I'll just buy it and somehow get it too you !!-No one should be deprived of the joy of owning this fine piece of British engineering (muffled laughter)-Cheers, Bertie

[bertiesme]

A quick update-as I posted before -I'm going through the motions of turning my Zero100sb (belt drive)into a usable deck from one that's totally motionless- as a warm up project before I tackle my idler drive Z100s-After firstly fixing the motor, I have followed all Chans advice and today I can report that I now have a usable deck!. The auto still does't want to work- but if I start in manual and place the cartridge on the LP it plays and picks up at the end and returns to rest- I will of course work again on that area that I circled in red -as I'm sure that it's still too stiff- but as some one, who is totally used to manual decks anyway, this is magical- not only that but it sounds really good-- This Zero is actually cosmetically very nice although unlike the other, I don't have the lid. By the way Chan that Zero100C is on £72 at the moment!-unbelievable-Regards, Bertie

[chan1]

Hi bertiesme. A few quick comments. Glad that 2/3 works but nearly there now. When you say the auto is not working, do you mean when the long auto spindle is installed it will operate correctly or the single spindle is installed and pushing the auto to lift the tonearm, etc, does not work? Specify. What will it not do? Tonearm work in manual when speed is set on 45, 33 7,10,12 and go to the right spot but just not auto in any speed? Belt slipping in auto? Must turn a number of items.

Best regards, chan

[bertiesme]

Hi Chan-Being a Z100 belt drive, it has a screwed in permanent centre spindle, so I think this particular model has no facility for stacking of records-But it does have all the normal auto features-It doesn't matter what speed I select -the auto will not work, but if I lower the arm onto the record and play the whole record, the arm now lifts and returns and switches off, all automatically. Also if I use the stop/reject lever it will lift and return. If I try to use the fully auto cycle the arm lifts, the platter starts, the arm stays put, whilst the deck is obviously trying to go auto(but doesn't), the arm then sets back down on its rest and then switches off- While I was working on it I noticed that the long speed control linkage, is very loose up against the rotating cut-outs of the speed control rotating knob- I suspect that this is part of the problem. Also in that area I circled below the left hand cir-clip, the is a metal quadrant that slides over the white plastic quadrant below, this all feels stiff- Do you think I'm on the right track?-By the way, I noticed on the US ebay site that there's a Zero100C at the moment-Regards, Bertie

[chan1]

[quote="bertiesme"]
Hi bertiesme. Thought I would bring your pic back up to the top the current thread. Of course, you have a single play, belt drive. My mistake.

If the long speed selector rod is nice and floppy now on each end that is good as the only thing that moves this rod and selects the speed is the small red spring pushing with friction against the vertical rod the long speed selector rod is connected to. Your red line in the pic cuts right through this spring at about 1 o'clock. The spring is small so that is why the parts it pulls against must be loose and floppy. I think this portion on your machine is working correctly.

Seems as if the belt drive has just enough strength to turn the large cam to return the tonearm at the end of an lp but not enough strength to make it lift and move towards the lp to start with. Makes sense because it must move more parts at the beginning than at the end so something is sticky. Check all parts within your red circle that have a spring attached or if there is a spring missing. Also, I assume that you removed the large cam entirely and cleaned and re-oiled it. All old grease and oil must be removed from the plastic parts attached to the large cam. These trip pawls must be dry to work right.

The part just below the right split ring can be pushed by hand to the left as mentioned before. That also moves several parts one of which is the slider that slides over the white plastic part, quadrant you mention. These parts must move and return via a spring to their normal position very easily. Fix those if not.

Your machine has a different trip pawl rod system, mentioned above, than the 100, so I cannot help with that but I assume that it trips and engages or disengages a plastic part on the large cam. Check that and the part it is attached to.

If you could set your machine on a piece of glass or prop it up in some manner so you can see the bottom cam and parts operate and if the cam actually turns when the auto function is engaged. Sounds as though the cam cannot be turning if the tonearm will not move towards the lp. With the power off, pushing the auto function will still engage that function so push the auto toggle and then turn the platter by hand. Now, does the tonearm move correctly. If not, some part is not engaging below. Is there a blowup parts list for the 100SP here in the library? I will look myself to see the parts that are different from the 100.

Is the belt you are using new, old or possibly stretched so it is slipping at the time when the auto is engaged and can't turn the cam. Could be a simple problem here with one missing or stretched spring or a sticky pawl. Each spring on the machine has a function to engage, disengage, etc.

Yes, you are on the right track if any part does not slid easily.

On the left hand of your circle, there is a tube the tonearm wires emanate from. Check the arm with the 2 holes the tube passes through. Has a set screw that must be tight as this turns the tonearm.

Hope this helps, best regards, chan

PS: Yes, I see the 100c. Not interested but thanks for the heads up. I may settle for a SB such as yours but I really want just a plain S.

[bertiesme]

Hi Chan - Thanks for your post-As I've had partial success with the 100SB -I thought I'd take rest from that and have a look at the 100S- It almost looks new underneath, so with much more confidence I set about freeing up all those seized pivots etc.,. The actual tonearm mechanics feels much freer on this deck and it was with much confidence that I reassembled it and tried it- I'm beginning to feel like Ernst as it is exactly the same- Unlike the SB the tonearm won't even return- Oh well I'm going down the pub and I may have a go at it again tomorrow-My wife is beginning to get worried about me( it could be something to do with the all the perfectly good turntables I have)-I've download 2 pics-! 0f the 100S and the other -both decks side by side

[Zaimejs]

Dumb question... how are you setting them upside down like that without destroying the tone arm stuff?

[bertiesme]

Hi Zaimejas-If you study the photo the tone arms are at the bottom and are taped up and hanging over the edge of the workmate-so they are actually hanging free- The workmate top is covered with old bedsheets to totally protect from any abrasion- That would be sacrilege to rest it on the tone arm!!-Anyway I had a few pints of bitter last night-lovely- When my friends asked what I'd been up to, I said servicing the Kawasaki, because if I start talking turntables their eyes glaze over!-They are all unbelievers- I probably wont have a go at the Zeros until tomorrow now, as I've been handed a "must do" list by "she who must be obeyed"- I jest, I think she secretly likes those big Akai reels when friends walk in and exclaim "WOW"- Bye for now- Bertie