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Rega speed stability vs. LP12 Platterspeed results

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Re: Rega speed stability vs. LP12 Platterspeed results

Postby mawari » 16 Jan 2012 08:44

Hold down the power and "round" button on the front simultaneously - it will save a pic to your camera roll.

Paul
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Re: Rega speed stability vs. LP12 Platterspeed results

Postby Dowser » 16 Jan 2012 14:22

mawari wrote:Hold down the power and "round" button on the front simultaneously - it will save a pic to your camera roll.

Paul


LOL - you learn something new every day, thanks! What is the app you are using to measure TT speed (frequency)?

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Re: Rega speed stability vs. LP12 Platterspeed results

Postby Laudanum » 16 Jan 2012 14:54

Radiance ... and others, If the Rega belt is truly a 1.78 mm width, I would suggest that it may be interesting to try different O-rings ... different durometers and materials. 1/16" is common O-ring width - actual .070" which equals 1.778mm. My Rotel takes this size/width belt and after trying several different types and durometers, I went with a soft Viton (Shore 60 - and one size smaller) and I believe that the background is just a bit blacker. Im assuming a little less transfer of "energy" through the belt to the subplatter with this belt. There were no speed or pitch differences between any of the "belts" I tried (timed measurements and listening only, nothing fancier than that). We are talking 25 cents to 1 dollar O-rings here so I tried a bunch. One can argue that the Rega belts are made to tighter tolerance than O-rings, I wont debate it. Just relayng a suggestion and my experience. Different tables, different subplatters etc. etc. so YMMV. But it may be a cool experiment for Rega owners as again, O-rings are available and cheap.
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Re: Rega speed stability vs. LP12 Platterspeed results

Postby atomlow » 16 Jan 2012 15:27

Dowser wrote:What is the app you are using to measure TT speed (frequency)?

Richard


http://platterspeed.com/
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Re: Rega speed stability vs. LP12 Platterspeed results

Postby Dowser » 16 Jan 2012 16:13

Thanks!
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Re: Rega speed stability vs. LP12 Platterspeed results

Postby watercourse » 17 Jan 2012 00:42

Hi everyone,

So people have posted different opinions about how the difference between a slack or taut belt might affect platter speed. I wanted to answer this question for myself, and embarked on changing the distance between the pulley and the subplatter, and taking measurements using PlatterSpeed.

On another thread about Michael Lim's mods, there were also questions about how the double pulley diameter might be different than the stock Rega pulley. Please refer to that discussion, where I posted the measurements of the Lim double pulley and the stock P5 diameters, as well as the diameters of the black and white Rega belts. Spoiler: The Lim pulleys have a larger diameter and the white belts have a smaller diameter. viewtopic.php?f=32&t=37636&p=340588#p340588

Before delving into the additional measurements, please read my caveat here: viewtopic.php?f=32&t=37636&p=340553#p340553
The bottom line is that I am doing this because I have a curiosity, I have the tools, and I am a scientist and this way by training. None of the data below should be viewed as the end-all, be-all, in fact, the data are presented to open up discussion, examine our assumptions, and perhaps to expand our understanding.

However, the BIGGEST caveat of all is that only speed measurements were taken - no listening tests accompanied the speed tests. If you don't understand how important this last point is, then you may as well stop reading this thread.

And if you have any suggestions about how to make these two threads less unwieldy with cross-referencing and cross-posting, please let me know.

So there were three trials, all using the TT-PSU and maximum mounting distance. "Maximum mounting distance" was determined by the distance achievable without having the motor contact the plinth (I have the Lim motor isolation base, and allowing the motor to contact the plinth would be defeating the purpose of this mod and might introduce another variable):
1. Double white belt.
2. Double white belt with rubber band around subplatter (to increase the outside diameter of the subplatter) - mostly for sh*ts and giggles.
3. Single black Rega belt.

The "control" was the speed taken with double belts and double pulley at initial mounting distance of motor prior to any mods (see my gallery for measurement). Speed measurements for the control have been posted previously in this same thread, and so there is no need to revisit this (however, I did take another measurement of the control prior to the trials, and results were exactly the same). Nothing else with the P5 was changed in any way other than changing belt configurations once the motor mounting distance was changed.

Results:
1. This trial did lower platter speed from the control, and had higher precision.
2. The increased subplatter diameter did have a significant effect on the platter speed, but also had the greatest speed variability.
3. Interestingly, this was closer to target speed, and had a better overall speed stability performance than a single white belt. This is counterintuitive, as one would think that the larger diameter black belt would not be seated as far in as a smaller diameter belt, and thus lead to faster platter speeds. This last finding is a good one to think about and discuss, if you have the inclination.

Therefore, in my system, a further mounting distance appears to be preferred over a shorter mounting distance and looser-fitting belts from the standpoint of the two parameters of platter speed and precision.

For the screenshots, only the "Info" screen is presented. If you're interested in the charts, I can link later, however, they are redundant and aren't comparable in any event due to vertical scaling issues.

Trial 1: Double white belt at max distance
Image

Trial 2: Double white belt at max distance with rubber band
Image

Trial 3: Single black belt at max distance
Image
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Re: Rega speed stability vs. LP12 Platterspeed results

Postby atomlow » 17 Jan 2012 00:46

Dowser wrote:Thanks!


You are welcome!

The more I read about speed issues with the double pulley, I'm happy to say I'm done with the idea of that upgrade. Also, the TT PSU was shipped back today and I'm very relieved, AHHH! Too much money, without the results I was looking for.

The platter speed app and 7" test record has been one of the cheapest and best tools I own, total of $26. It's saved me a lot of money already, I highly recommend it.

Someday I'd love a VPI, but for now I have a p3-24 with the groovetracer reference subplatter at a total cost of $875! That's half the price of a VPI Scout and the main reason I bought the P3-24 in the first place! =D> :D

I might do some further testing with the original subplatter, but for now here is my latest test. Original black belt, Reference subplatter, and Speed Cream.

I'd be interested in seeing results of a Rega or Vpi that was closer to 3150hz.

20133
Rega P3-24 | Groovetracer Reference Sub-Platter | Rega Stock Belt | Shure M97XE w/ Jico Needle | Rega Brio-R | Pioneer SP-FS51-LR Speakers (Andrew Jones)
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Re: Rega speed stability vs. LP12 Platterspeed results

Postby watercourse » 17 Jan 2012 01:45

One other thing: Last night attended a listening session with a restored Garrard 301 that cost more than twice what I've spent on my P5, amplified by $100K worth of Shindo gear into $11K and $12K DeVore speakers. I don't think my P5 was shamed in any way whatsoever - in fact, I left feeling pretty proud of what the humble P5 can achieve.
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Re: Rega speed stability vs. LP12 Platterspeed results

Postby atomlow » 17 Jan 2012 01:48

watercourse wrote:One other thing: Last night attended a listening session with a restored Garrard 301 that cost more than twice what I've spent on my P5, amplified by $100K worth of Shindo gear into $11K and $12K DeVore speakers. I don't think my P5 was shamed in any way whatsoever - in fact, I left feeling pretty proud of what the humble P5 can achieve.


That's good to hear! :)
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Re: Rega speed stability vs. LP12 Platterspeed results

Postby watercourse » 17 Jan 2012 02:24

atomlow wrote:The more I read about speed issues with the double pulley, I'm happy to say I'm done with the idea of that upgrade.


Not that atomlow is implying that my speed issues are somehow related to the double pulley mod, but I just want to clarify, again, that my platter speed has ALWAYS been fast, even in its stock configuration. No mods, with or without TT-PSU, it has always been fast.

The PlatterSpeed just confirms what my ears have been telling me for 2.5 years.
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Re: Rega speed stability vs. LP12 Platterspeed results

Postby atomlow » 17 Jan 2012 02:31

watercourse wrote:
Not that atomlow is implying that my speed issues are somehow related to the double pulley mod, but I just want to clarify, again, that my platter speed has ALWAYS been fast, even in its stock configuration.


Yeah, it looked like I was commenting on your issues and I wasn't, I think we posted the above posts at around the same time. I'm referring to people saying the double pulley is different diameter than the stock pulley. I almost commented after I saw your post, that I wasn't commenting on your post.

I hope you get that figured out! This stuff drives me crazy, I should listen to more music! 8)
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Re: Rega speed stability vs. LP12 Platterspeed results

Postby watercourse » 17 Jan 2012 04:17

Also want to clarify that the speed issue bothers me this much (I'm holding my index finger and thumb about 0.5mm apart). This investigation is really all in the name of science.

It doesn't get in the way of the music - it's not like it's listening to The Chipmunks or anything. It's slightly fast - enough to wonder if it is fast, but then it doesn't really matter because it sounds so good.
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Re: Rega speed stability vs. LP12 Platterspeed results

Postby Alec124c41 » 17 Jan 2012 06:21

mawari wrote:Hold down the power and "round" button on the front simultaneously - it will save a pic to your camera roll.

Paul


Thanks! That's exactly what I needed.

Cheers,
Alec
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Re: Rega speed stability vs. LP12 Platterspeed results

Postby moon unit » 26 Oct 2012 08:20

Little late to the thread, but I tried out the Platterspeed app with my Pro-Ject RM-5.1 table. The numbers look to be in line or slightly better than the results posted here:

photo%201resixe.jpg
photo%201resixe.jpg (27.32 KiB) Viewed 454 times

photo%202resize.jpg
photo%202resize.jpg (34.8 KiB) Viewed 454 times

Hoping somebody can answer a couple of questions for me:

Are the lowpass-filtered frequency numbers more relevant?

Also, I noticed the 3150 hz test tone shifting from left to right speaker throughout the test and changing the speed reading on the app back and forth. Is this normal for a test tone? I did notice that the record was slightly off center so I believe this was the cause. It can't be good for the mean frequency listed.

Just trying to make a little sense of these numbers...
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