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A SP10 MkII plinth in mixed materials (wood based)

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A SP10 MkII plinth in mixed materials (wood based)

Postby alternativeroute » 06 Jan 2012 18:42

Just completed a SP10 plinth for a friend of mine... It was going to be mine but turned out a touch too big so we swopped. I finished the plinth and he gave me his Theta DAC...

Here is a brief about the construction:

The top board is a mix of 22mm MDF and 18mm Birch ply...
The sides are Kiaat inlayed with White Oak and a strip of Panga Panga...
The finish for the wood is polywax rubbed with steel wool and furniture wax.
The top is NC laquer in a slight off-gloss black...

Armboards (I made 4) are removable. Two sit flush with the top and the other two are raised 6mm to accommodate Rega arms without VTA adjustment spacers...

The arm on at the moment is a AT 16e and the cart is a Shure M75

Here are some construction and finished plinth pics...

Image
Technics SP-10 Mk2 Plinth Build - inserts by arclients, on Flickr

Image
Technics SP-10 Mk2 Plinth Build - topside by arclients, on Flickr

Image
Technics SP-10 Mk2 Plinth Build - Routering the edges by arclients, on Flickr

Image
Technics SP-10 Mk2 Plinth Build - measuring the armboard for cutting by arclients, on Flickr

Image
Technics SP-10 Mk2 Plinth Build - table and arm fitted by arclients, on Flickr

Image
Technics SP-10 Mk2 Plinth Build - playing some toones by arclients, on Flickr
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Re: A SP10 MkII plinth in mixed materials (wood based)

Postby Blue Angel » 06 Jan 2012 21:08

Lovely, lovely workmanship, Jacques.

ba
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Re: A SP10 MkII plinth in mixed materials (wood based)

Postby alternativeroute » 06 Jan 2012 23:26

Blue Angel wrote:Lovely, lovely workmanship, Jacques.

ba


Thanks, this one really came together with ease... Drew up the plans and it just worked out as planned. Pity I never measured my turntable platform though... Only after glue-up did a friend visiting from JHB point out that it might not fit :? lo-behold, moved it over and #-o

Now I know what I am going to do when I build my one :D

I really like the multiple tonearm board thing... I have built a few plinths for various tables that are designed for a specific table/arm combination. I enjoy them for 6 months and then when I want to move them on for another project I find few buyers out there that might share my same enthusiasm for my chosen combination :roll:

BTW. the Technics is a dream table to build a standard plinth for - everything is pretty square (no fancy CLD cutouts needed)...
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Re: A SP10 MkII plinth in mixed materials (wood based)

Postby Alec124c41 » 07 Jan 2012 05:58

Blue Angel wrote:Lovely, lovely workmanship, Jacques.

ba


I second that. Tat is beautiful! =D> =D> =D>

Cheers,
Alec
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Re: A SP10 MkII plinth in mixed materials (wood based)

Postby awty » 07 Jan 2012 07:31

That is very nice, wish I had the skills and patients.

"The sides are Kiaat inlayed with White Oak and a strip of Panga Panga..."
Did you do this your self or was it made to order?

How did you tie the sides and center piece together?
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Re: A SP10 MkII plinth in mixed materials (wood based)

Postby alternativeroute » 07 Jan 2012 09:17

awty wrote:That is very nice, wish I had the skills and patients.

"The sides are Kiaat inlayed with White Oak and a strip of Panga Panga..."
Did you do this your self or was it made to order?

How did you tie the sides and center piece together?


The inlays I cut using my plunge circular saw (with rail)... I cut the Oak/Panga Panga (also known as Wenge) into 2.5x20mm strips and then glued them into the groove I cut into the Kiaat.

The sides were then cut with 45 mitre angles and the whole lot glued together. I cut a rebate for the 22mm MDF. Before the main glue-up I laminated the MDF and the ply together...

Here is cross-section:

Image
Technics SP-10 Mk2 Plinth Build - Cross section by arclients, on Flickr

Image
Technics SP-10 Mk2 Plinth Build - cross-section by arclients, on Flickr
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Re: A SP10 MkII plinth in mixed materials (wood based)

Postby JaS » 07 Jan 2012 10:47

Very nice :) SP10 plinths can look a bit lumpish but the tapered edges/corners and contrasting inserts/top panel on yours does a good job of disguising the sheer bulk of the thing.

Regards,
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Re: A SP10 MkII plinth in mixed materials (wood based)

Postby jtore » 07 Jan 2012 11:18

WOW!
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Re: A SP10 MkII plinth in mixed materials (wood based)

Postby awty » 07 Jan 2012 12:10

Thank you for that. So much easier to see how its done with pictures.
Hmmmm you have got me thinking now. Just need a router table.
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Re: A SP10 MkII plinth in mixed materials (wood based)

Postby alternativeroute » 13 Jan 2012 07:44

A little update.

I went over to my mates house who got the plinth and had a good listen.

When we setup the table I put on a Shure M75. My mate found the Shure a little too indistinct and rough in the lower treble region and changed the cart to a AT12.

I am not sure of the cart compliance but the sound is nicely rounded. Nothing in the spectrum sticks out (as in out of place or magnified)...

What I did quite like is that the bass sounded tight. I ran a similar setup toward the end of last year using this plinth:

Image
SABC Technics SP10 plinth method by arclients, on Flickr

The bass was rather flabby and ill defined (almost like it was quarter beat behind - if that makes sense)...

Now, this is where I can rue myself for being impatient. I have changed too much in my system for me to confidently blame the plinth...

The only other change we are going to try with the plinth are some Sorbothane supports. At the moment the plinth/deck is resting on four rubber doorstops (which does not seem to be having an ill effect)... I have moved away from metal cones/spikes as I have had bad experience with them on previous plinth builds... They are great for levelling the table but I find them terrible at isolating the table from the environment (in my unscientific analogous experience)....
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Re: A SP10 MkII plinth in mixed materials (wood based)

Postby thezenroom » 13 Jan 2012 22:28

i love your design. but i would replace the 22mm MDF top with permali (resin impregnated ply) which has a great damping factor. some reading:

http://qualia.webs.com/newdampingfactors.htm

http://qualia.webs.com/plinthbuilding.htm

(btw.. you can improve the damping factor of the MDF by sandwiching it with 2 sheets of aluminium)
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Re: A SP10 MkII plinth in mixed materials (wood based)

Postby alternativeroute » 13 Jan 2012 23:40

thezenroom wrote:i love your design. but i would replace the 22mm MDF top with permali (resin impregnated ply) which has a great damping factor. some reading:

http://qualia.webs.com/newdampingfactors.htm

http://qualia.webs.com/plinthbuilding.htm

(btw.. you can improve the damping factor of the MDF by sandwiching it with 2 sheets of aluminium)


I must say that this was a very unscientific build. The only reason I put the ply into the mix was to offset the sag that I have witnessed with a recipe of MDF+Weight+Time. The fact that the ply might have a CLD effect was an added (bonus) advantage versus a cognitive design aspect...

I have read cat-squirrels site quite extensively and I consider his research and opinion in the highest regard. That said, turntable plinth building still confounds me. There is so much information out there yet there is so little information that is tied to some scientific research. That is not to say that conventional wisdom and experienced wisdom need be discounted. I just need to form my own understanding and I need to experiment myself a whole lot more...

To make things more complicated it would seem to me that every table or at-least every table type would also seem to need a different plinth strategy. some examples:

Thorens TD150 (suspended deck). For this type of deck the main function of the plinth in my view is to rigidly support the suspended deck. Damping should be taken care of by the suspension mechanism (with correct set-up)...

Lenco L75. This deck on the other hand has a serious Achilles heel in terms of mechanical rumble. General wisdom out there on the world wide forums is that a plinth good at absorbing and dissipating that mechanical rumble is needed. So most plinths seen built are the mixed material CLD type...

Technics SP10. What is the strategy here? According to measurements, the table has an almost unmeasurable rumble. Then mention is made of something big and heavy to negate the massive torque of the motor. But that torque is spooled back (drastically) once the platter is spinning at speed (in a quarter turn)...

thezenroom, I am by no means discounting your observations and advise, I am just trying to wrap my head around the various plinth building concepts... Maybe i should read less and build more :D I also feel I need to develop a more methodical approach to these builds. Let me expand with pictures :wink:

Image
Technics SP10 + Audio Technica AT 1501 + Ortofon 2M blue by arclients, on Flickr

versus

Image
Technics SP-10 Mk2 Plinth Build - playing some toones by arclients, on Flickr

Notice the difference?

OK, yes, the plinths are completely different as are the cartridges but the small difference is that the original broadcast plinth had the arm mounted on foam and mine I neglected the foam and fastened the arm hard to the armboard....

Now I mentioned that the bass has improved and become more legible (defined)... What proportion of the mix has improved the bass?
The different cart,
the different plinth
or the methodology used to mount the arm?

Too many changes, too little documentation and observation... :roll:

anyway, I am rambling #-o :oops: :lol: It's a journey :D
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Re: A SP10 MkII plinth in mixed materials (wood based)

Postby thezenroom » 14 Jan 2012 00:39

for sure experimenting by changing one variable at a time will give you the answer (most likely the arm mounting is giving the more solid bass).

i gave you those links just in case you hadn't seen cats site. as the quality of your work deserves the most effective materials.

for sure there are many approaches to plinth design. but your design/work lends itself to experimenting with cats ideas: as you are not using a high mass approach (marble/slate etc.). although sourcing a small piece of permali is not so easy.

i'll be building a plinth myself at some point, and will mount just the motor (not the full motor unit) in a piece of 25mm permali .... along with the arm ...... with maglift feet ..... on a wall mounted shelf

isolation from outside vibration is all we have to worry about with these units (as we are rumble free!).

this is the commercial plinth that came with my deck:

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Re: A SP10 MkII plinth in mixed materials (wood based)

Postby alternativeroute » 14 Jan 2012 09:57

thezenroom wrote:will mount just the motor (not the full motor unit) in a piece of 25mm permali


I have seen this methodology (on a Japanese site using google translate). Makes sense to move all those electronics away from the table...



thezenroom wrote:with maglift feet


Do you have any links to these. Sounds interesting.

thezenroom wrote:isolation from outside vibration is all we have to worry about with these units (as we are rumble free!).


This is why I am keen to try the Sorbothane feet.

What I would like to know is if the plinth resonates as a whole (since all the materials are glued together) or if each component resonates at its own frequency. Imagine a graph with spikes for each material... versus a graph with a single spike of the plinth as a whole...

BTW. This was one of my test plinths... The plinthless plinth:

Image
sp10 - plinthless plinth with a Grace tonearm by arclients, on Flickr

The motor unit supported the armboard...

This one sounded the equal of the plinth I just built...
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