The Linn LP12 Gramophone.

[avole]

You could try the Tiefenbrun recommended classic, the Ikea Lack. Just about the biggest bargain in HiFi.

[cafe latte]

I love my 1977 LP12 - it cost me £200 to buy though Since added a Sole subchassis, DIY Geddon PSU, corner braces, first an RB250 and then recently a Mission 774. It is over-hyped, but it also a good deck - biggest issue for me in stock form was the bloated one-note bass, an after market subchassis fixes this wonderfully!

Richard

Yes but you should not have to do all this if it was as good as claimed when it was new.. Not putting down your TT at all just saying as soo many tables made at the same time or even earlier stock standard can still show many later Linns a pair of heels. The latest top of the line Linn does sound great, but so do a hell of a lot cheaper TTs too.
CL

[Dowser]

I guess it depends what you are looking for in a turn table. I initially bought mine with an LV-V arm and basik cartridge, fully with the intention of reselling it on eBay for a huge profit - I believed at the time the Sondek was mostly hype (having only heard one example many years earlier), and was happily running a Sota Sapphire.

However, I set it up and listened to it, and sold the Sota. Resolution was much better with the Sota (the LV-V and Basik are pretty low end), but the Linn just boogied and made me feel more engaged. Mounting the RB250 and Denon DL-100 (from the Sota) fixed most of the resolution issues without impacting boogie, just leaving a slightly bloated bass for my taste. The Sole sub-chassis ultimately fixed this, the other mods have just been icing on the cake (although recent fitment of a Mission 774 was another nice step up).

I don't have that much experience of different turn tables, maybe there was better out there in 1977?

Richard

[avole]

Which ones? - that's genuine curiosity by the way. I'd pick the LP12 over most turntables I've heard. As for upgrades, well, isn't that what half the hobby is about? As I said before, it's still a great deck despite the hype. I'd still love to buy a good second hand one, but their prices rise quicker than my bank balance.

It was in the best turntable list in 1980 and is rated the best by audio.de and stereo.de. Also the only one from the 1980 list still in production.

[farispaul]

No, most hyped is the Rega Planar/p3. I think looks over function comes into it.

[cafe latte]

Which ones? - that's genuine curiosity by the way. I'd pick the LP12 over most turntables I've heard. As for upgrades, well, isn't that what half the hobby is about? As I said before, it's still a great deck despite the hype. I'd still love to buy a good second hand one, but their prices rise quicker than my bank balance.

It was in the best turntable list in 1980 and is rated the best by audio.de and stereo.de. Also the only one from the 1980 list still in production.

The systemdek with acrylic platter sounded better than the Linn of the time as did the first Dunlop systemdek and those brave enough who reviewd it said as much. Technics sp25,10 not to mention the first Townsend Rock of the early 80s all outperformed the Linn IMO
CL

[bubba45]

In terms of Belt drive, suspended sub chassis, long arm board, AC motor decks I think the LP12 is markedly overrated.

By way of explanation let me just say that all my decks have been 2nd hand and so I judge if they're over hyped based on how they're rated by other users, how much forum space is given over to them, how much it costs &/or how much has to be done to tweak / upgrade them so they "reach their full potential", how much they sell for and more importantly how much I enjoy them.

I do think the LP12 in my criteria is overrated &/or over hyped vastly. Don't get me wrong I've owned 2 and thought the sound was great. Really enjoyed them. One was a stock 1980 version and then I had a later pre-cirkus model with carbon fibre sub-chassis, Mose / Hercules off board PSU; carbon fibre armboard; stiffer base board etc. This also sounded terrific and better than the 1st one I owned but on the whole the upgrades were not VFM for the overall sound improvement.

I dismantled both and sold them for parts after buying a Heybrook TT2 that in A/B comparisons sounded only a tiny margin 'lesser' than the 2nd LP12 and both had real boogie factor. I loved listening to both the tweaked LP12 & the TT2.

However the TT2 cost about a 1/3 as much and it didn't need tweaking.

I also owned an RD11 and if I had put that in a solid Linn plinth it would have matched the LP12 and bettered the TT2.It cost about a 1/4 to a 1/5 of the tweaked LP12.

In terms of belt drive, suspended sub chassis TT's all these though (IMHO) are bettered by a Thorens TD125 MKII. Unfortunately I have no chance for an A/B comparison now. It cost less than the TT2 but more than the RD11 and only needs a new plinth to possibly improve it.

So I think the LP12 on the whole IME is the most hyped / overrated TT I have owned. It sounds great for a 'fun' 'musical' deck but isn't IME & IMHO worth what it costs to buy or upgrade. The SL1210 (which I own and love too) comes a close 2nd these days.

Of all the TT's I have owned though my GL75 still represents the best VFM even with a new tonearm.

[farispaul]

I would agree with Bubba45, although I haven't had a RD11 or Heybrook.

[LPspinner]

Hi Guys..

The LP12 certainly has developed a reputation during its lifetime and a good portion of that is due a rather energetic publicity campaign and heavy-duty media schmoozing by Linn. However this doesn’t mean the product is seriously floored.

I have owned an LP12 for nearly 20 years, mine has the Valhalla PSU, Circus bearing / sub-platter upgrade only and is partnered with an Ittok LVII. It is the only piece of gear that I am yet to feel the need to sell off. It sounds great and just keeps on giving me the sound I wanted when I first heard it all those years ago.

People often make comparisons with other popular suspended sub-chassis models and yes; Linn was not the first company to use this design. What Linn did do was to identify some important parts of the system and then concentrate on getting it as close as possible to perfect. The Linn main spindle bearing is much better built and ground to finer tolerances when compared to many of the other bearings used on other decks. When many decks used aluminum for the outer Platter Linn went for a mazak alloy (Mazak is Magnesium Zinc Aluminium alloy), which is heavier and better, damped that the typical aluminum platters used by most turntable manufacturers. The Linn Hardwood plinth is also more desirable than the veneered chipboard or MDF offerings of many of the decks at the time of its introduction.

It is a popular sport to slate a deck that has become one of the most common turntables around (a similar fate has befallen the Technics SL1200), why this has happened is any ones guess. Yes the latest upgrades are no longer reasonably priced but the entire High-End / aspirational audio industry is full of ridiculously priced hardware, you cant blame the manufacturer entirely if the market is only too willing to pay the exorbitant prices asked and no one is forcing anyone to purchase the latest high priced upgrades. They are merely offered for those that can afford them. My own Hi-Fi dealer fully understands and appreciates any customer who just wants his Linn serviced and restored to the condition it was when it was first purchased. A properly serviced original 1977 vintage LP12 still manages to sound wonderful with nothing more than a new belt and a general cleanup by a knowledgeable service engineer, which shouldn’t cost much money at all.

LPSPinner

[JaS]

What Linn did do was to identify some important parts of the system and then concentrate on getting it as close as possible to perfect

Even my lowly Axis had a beautifully finished main bearing and platter assembly, more so than any other deck I've seen in it's price category. Leaving aside the hype, Linn definitely deserve some credit for their engineering



Regards,
JaS

[bubba45]

Absolutely Jas and LPspinner, the LP12 is a well engineered deck that produces an excellent, enjoyable sound. Like I say I loved the sound of the two I owned.

I don't think anyone here has said any different?

But going back to the OP's original point / question and yes I'm afraid the LP12 is quite possibly the most over hyped or overrated TT I have come across soundwise.

IME you pay a lot, even without the upgrades, for a 2nd hand LP12 and you can basically get the same performance from other decks for less.

[satanfriendly]

The systemdek with acrylic platter sounded better than the Linn of the time

I'd like to know who said that because it is far from the truth. A brush with a Systemdeck last year left me thinking it wasn't all it was supposed to be and I wouldn't have thought an acrylic platter would have moved it in to LP12 territory.

I am not a great fan of the LP12, but it's made its mark in TT history and made its stake in terms of importance. Very few other turntables have had the same impact whether they are better or not. A lot of clever marketing, but so what, Isn't that the back bone of a lot of company's? You need some blurb in there to make it sell otherwise you may as well not be manufacturing.

My detest is more the aggressiveness of the marketing and the way it was bullied through at the dealers and the press. The death nell for many a good TT out there. Plus of course it was near enough a straight copy of the RD11.

There are better turntables out there and there has been throughout its existence, but none have lasted the distance to the same effect and very few have had such reliability. You rarely hear of 12's going seriously wrong unlike quite a few I could think of. Simple, well-engineered and built to last......much like the RD11 (and Ariston's in general) it was copied from but that is now confined to history.

Over hyped definitely, but deservedly so. It set the standard all those years back and continues still to be a reference point to many ears. I understand the present full Monty at some £14,000 (and so it should be) is one very formidable set up.

[avole]

SF, to be fair, Ariston themselves copied from Thorens and AR, so they're none of them squeaky clean.

[satanfriendly]

SF, to be fair, Ariston themselves copied from Thorens and AR, so they're none of them squeaky clean

True, but at least they just used the principle as against to marketing a direct copy in all essence.