Apple Products - Love Or Loathe Them

[avole]

While I think of it, where Apple leads the field is with accessibility. Windows isn't close, and I'm unaware of any Linux product in widespread use.

I realise accessibility isn't a priority for most, but it is an example of how thorough Apple can be at its best.

[flavio81]

Flavio, could you keep on topic for this thread rather than dragging arguments across from another? Best to let bygones be bygones, methinks.

Cheers,
Avole

1. We already were discussing this very same topic at this thread:

http://www.vinylengine.com/phpBB2/viewt ... 0&start=30

2. YOU created this thread to continue the discussion

3. Thus, i'm following YOUR idea and continuing the discussion here. Thanks.

[avole]

Flavio, could you keep on topic for this thread rather than dragging arguments across from another? Best to let bygones be bygones, methinks.

Cheers,
Avole

1. We already were discussing this very same topic at this thread:

http://www.vinylengine.com/phpBB2/viewt ... 0&start=30

2. YOU created this thread to continue the discussion

3. Thus, i'm following YOUR idea and continuing the discussion here. Thanks.

Flavio, do you understand what "let bygones be bygones means?" It's akin to saying "let's bury the hatchet."

[flavio81]

* I would recommend installing Acrobat reader if you want to use this site though as the problems with Preview and PDF compatibility are well documented (so much for 'they just work').

If somebody is interested in doing a simple upgrade: I'm using PDF X-change viewer instead of Adobe Acrobat. It's free, and it works very very fast, much faster than Acrobat, for starters.

Great for reviewing the PDFs in the library.

And no, there is no Apple Macintosh version available...

[flavio81]

Flavio, do you understand what "let bygones be bygones means?" It's akin to saying "let's bury the hatchet."

Forums are not for personal discussions, but before asking to "bury the hatchet" you should at the very least have the gentelman gesture of apologizing for your repeated personal attacks and bad attitude, which was so obvious that user Spyes had the very nice gesture of standing up and defending me:

http://www.vinylengine.com/phpBB2/viewt ... c&start=15

I am tired of your attitude, this happens again and again, here and at AudioKarma too. For example, i start doing a comprehensive explanation on something YOU asked for, yet you insult my answer:

http://www.audiokarma.org/forums/showpo ... stcount=27

That is very, very bad manners. I am not expecting you to apologyze so don't expect me to "bury the hatchet".

And now, let's stop any personal discussions.

[avole]

Flavio, one last comment: what a graceless response.

JaS, I use Preview without a problem on Snow Leopard, but PDFs have caused my iPhone to hang on occasion. Acrobat Reader is installed on the Macs, but I have never needed to use it.

[JaS]

While I think of it, where Apple leads the field is with accessibility. Windows isn't close, and I'm unaware of any Linux product in widespread use.

I realise accessibility isn't a priority for most, but it is an example of how thorough Apple can be at its best.

Could you expand on this a little? iPods look to have a simple enough interface but the original iPad has no USB port or flash which kind of limits what I would term accessibility (nice screen though). As for the the limited choice of hardware/software on the Mac it's a deal breaker for me. Do you mean they have limited uses but what they do they do well, kind of like a fridge or dishwasher? I honestly haven't seen/used an Apple product that on balance has made me want to part with my money, but I'd be interested in hearing what the big deal is for Apple lovers. Maybe you have to live with them? Or they have to fit your lifestyle?

Regards,
JaS

[avole]

I've done some work for a society which requires accessibility, and it was they who made the comments, both for the Mac, which I knew, having watched them install OSX from fresh without any help from me, but the iPhone comment was a surprise.

I agree that you cannot get the same software on the Mac that you can for Windows boxes, but it struck me that this was one area which Apple appears to have taken seriously and produced a genuinely good product. Accessibility is built in to the OS by the way, which it isn't for windows, or wasn't for Windows 7 anyway.

By the way, you can run a lot of Linux products under OSX, which is handy for me, anyway. It's really only games that Macs miss out on big time. Dreamweaver, Photoshop, office suite etc all run on Macs without a problem.

I use Macs because I can run all three OS on the same box, because OSX is remarkably stable, and because my job requires it. The macmini also contains all my music except vinyl now.

I also think Windows 7 is good, by the way, though I wish Microsoft would stop fiddling with their interfaces.

Stephen Elop, CEO of Nokia, has been on record saying that the iphone/ipad products redefined the industry, which perhaps explains partly why they are so successful and also resented. It's worth noting that rival ipad/iphone products tend to cost about the same.

Edit: forgot to mention iTunes. It's free, and together with airplay is a big advance on other streaming systems because it does audio and video from any iTunes computer, be it Mac or Windows.

[flavio81]

While I think of it, where Apple leads the field is with accessibility. Windows isn't close, and I'm unaware of any Linux product in widespread use.

I realise accessibility isn't a priority for most, but it is an example of how thorough Apple can be at its best.

Could you expand on this a little? iPods look to have a simple enough interface but the original iPad has no USB port or flash which kind of limits what I would term accessibility (nice screen though).

I had a problem with an iPod, which is an example of lack of easiness of use. Interestingly, it is a problem with iTunes.

The iPod came to my hands, and was used with the iTunes software for the mac. Which means it was formatted for the MAC OS X filesystem.

Ok, perfect. I install iTunes on my windows computer, and then the machine says it is a Macintosh-formatted iPod and "it should be restored before usage". So i click on restore and...

(1) It erased all the music files on the iPod, without warning. They could have programmed the conversion of files from Mac filesystem to windows filesystem, but no; they didn't. Yet they didn't issue a warning that ALL the files were to be erased.

This is annoying per se, but what follows is even worse:

(2) The 'restore' process FORCES the user to upgrade the iPod firmware, which opens up some issues:

(2.2) The iPod firmware is 200MB (!!) Try this with a 20Kb/sec connection (more than 2 hours)

(2.3) If iTunes detects that the download pauses for more than about two seconds (i.e. because of a bad connection), the whole process is ABORTED and you have to start down all over again... 200MB... all over again (more than 2 hours).

(2.4) Upgrading the firmware is a somewhat dangerous process; if your computer is suddenly turned off (i.e. power outage) and the iPod is low on battery, the firmware will be corrupted, and the only way to fix the iPod would be bringing it to an Apple tech support.

and last but not least

(2.5) Upgrading the firmware was absolutely UNNECESARY, in the first place.

I don't know if that's an example of bad accessibility, but it really gave me major headaches.

Ah, and the iTunes software itelf also has some annoyings, at least on windows:

(1) It installs 2 applications that don't get removed when you uninstall the iTunes software: the "Bonjour" service and the Apple updater. Both are windows services, and they *don't get removed* which means that they keep running on the background even after removing iTunes.

(2) There is no way to sort MP3 files by filename and location, which means that if you have lots of MP3 files with no track or album info, or with generic track names (i.e. "Track 1", "Track 2"), your iTunes library will look like this:

Track 1
Track 1
Track 1
Track 1
Track 1
Track 2
Track 2
Track 2
Track 2
Track 2

etc. And there's no way to sort this by folder and/or filename. You have to individually click on each file and then open the file info dialog if you want to find out.

Anyways, i think i can forgive those details. But the "restore iPod" thing was dissapointing.

[KevAmiga]

Plus, Ipod's dont work in cold weather.... believe me

[13oots2]

It's really only games that Macs miss out on big time. Dreamweaver, Photoshop, office suite etc all run on Macs without a problem.

Find me an industry standard 3D package that runs on the Mac, most are low level programs designed for the uninitiated amateur. Also hardware accelerated graphics are very restricted for Photoshop and Premiere a Radeon 5870 or two just doesn't cut the mustard at professional level With the PC I can choose an array of Nvidia graphics card, ranging from lightweight gamer card to heavyweight Quadro cards.

Adobe Premiere supports 20 Nvidia graphics cards in Windows and 3 under Mac OS. I can also edit a script file and add any Nvidia 2xx 4xx and 5xx card not to mention all the Quadro's to run on PC. Adobe graphics products are not all they cracked up to be on the Mac.

Also my phone running Android has full support for Flash player and to appease even the geek in me be over clocked, ROMs rewritten by the user and I can even change the battery, talk about treating people like idiots.

This must be revenge for all the times I have been lectured by Mackies

[JaS]

Edit: forgot to mention iTunes. It's free, and together with airplay is a big advance on other streaming systems because it does audio and video from any iTunes computer, be it Mac or Windows.

I'll admit to never having tried iTunes I have such a pathological hatred for Quicktime that I've avoided installing any other Apple software on my PC as they seem to be purposely designed to annoy the Windows user. The Quicktime movies I made on my old Nikon Coolpix camera might as well be in C64 tape format for all the playtime they get.

Regards,
JaS

PS having had a quick look at the iTunes page on wikipedia there seems to be very limited support of file types? If it really doesn't play Flac (the de facto standard for lossless files) then it's not much use to me. What were they thinking

[flavio81]

PS having had a quick look at the iTunes page on wikipedia there seems to be very limited support of file types? If it really doesn't play Flac (the de facto standard for lossless files) then it's not much use to me. What were they thinking

Steve Jobs wants you to use Apple Lossless format, because "it just works (tm)". Asked on this issue, he said:

[avole]

True, Apple supports only its variant, ALAC. However, there are a few plugins that convert FLAC to ALAC - some options here: http://www.macworld.com/article/142096/ ... tunes.html

No difference between the two, by the way.