First Post/Looking For First System

[aislepathlight]

Hey all,

I'm a student currently, majoring in electrical engineering. I'm just starting to fall in love with audio gear (It has been a long time coming). Embarrassing admission: I currently have nothing other than poo poo laptop speakers to listen to music on. I also have a couple pair of headphones (Sony MDR-7506 and some decent sure in ears).

But this won't do around a place like this--I want to put together my first audio setup. First and foremost, I've got a ton of fantastic records in my family that everyone is looking to get rid of, and I'm happy to take it off their hands. Second, I'm gung ho about getting my hands dirty. So I guess I'd ideally find some great old receiver and turn table for reasonably cheap, and put countless hours of work into it, and get something fantastic. Third, space is at a premium in my dorm, so I can't have a ton of gear or that many components in the set up.

I guess the big thing is money at this point. Um. Lets see. I think I'm going to start and aim to get an old turntable and an old reciever for a couple hundred at most (I'd prefer to go way less, but I realized that I have to put some money down to make this happen). I think the long term goal for the project (I'm still a poor college student after all) is roughly $500 when all is said and done, which seems reasonable to me, based on some of what I've seen

Does this seem reasonable?

How hard would it to be to find awesome old equipment in need of some TLC?

Thanks for your time and patience!

[davidsss]

My first question would be, electrical engineer: can you solder? If you can solder then you could DIY a phono stage and save a lot.

There are literally millions of turntables out there and quite a few up for sale. The first thing I would do is check your local charity shops and see if they have anything. You might have to come back here and ask advice but sometimes you can pick up a bargain. Also ask around your family, if they own records they might just have a turntable stashed away that they will let you have. Go for well known brands such as Sansui, Kenwood, Technics et al and I would favour wooden plinthed turntables over the thin plastic jobs which were a feature of the 1980s.

For an amp maybe go for something Japanese, again try your local charity shops. Same would apply to speakers. You can very quickly (not very accurate but not bad for cheap gear) assess amps and speakers by weight. A heavier amp has a higher capacity power supply all else being equal so heavier amps are often better. Heavier speakers can indicate better made enclosures and heavier magnets. It's far from definitive but can be helpful.

Also try your local Craiglist or the like.

DS

[Jim Leach]

I suggest you take a look over at www.diyaudio.com and you can literally build your entire system. Here's why:

1) You get a lot of pride doing it yourself.

2) It will sound better than a lot of commercial stuff out there (even the mega-buck stuff)

3) You can probably arrange some class credit for doing it too!

I am a member over there and can suggest the Mongrel amplifier thread and also the boom-box CD transport conversion thread (the latter is rather epic at this point). The boom box thread they took a VERY cheap cd player boom box (JVC I think) and made a world-beater CD transport out of it. Great read!

I have a D to A converter that is a cheap kit on eBay; modified with Lundahl output transformers (by-pass all op-amps) it is also a cheap world-beater. (with up-sampling).

Anyway, join over there, and get sucked into the vortex!

For any and all turntable related stuff, you have found the right place. This is a great forum, with quite a few brilliant people on board. Welcome!

[aislepathlight]

I'll respond to each post on its own (sorry if it gets a bit long!)

davidsss

My first question would be, electrical engineer: can you solder?

I can solder. The first piece of musical gear I bought off Craigslist was an old boombox(Lasonic TRC-931) had blown woffers, so I took that apart and solderd some new ones in. And I've created a couple power supplies in class that required soldering.

Go for the well known brands such as Sansui, Kenwood, Technics et al

Okay, this is a good start. I really have no knowledge of what to look for in terms of what was high end audio over the past 60 years. I know that I can't get a list of all of the high end audio companies, but guidance about which brands you all prefer would be really useful. (Please help me out with this!)

A heavier amp has a higher capacity power supply all else being equal so heavier amps are often better. Heavier speakers can indicate better made enclosures and heavier magnets. It's far from definitive but can be helpful.

Hmm, this is good to know. I've got a pretty good knowledge of circuitry and power supplies, so I'd love to get a more techinical explination of what I'm looking for.

I'm currently in Washington, DC at school, but I'm headed back to Cleveland, Ohio at the end of the semester in 3 weeks (Eeeek!). I'll do my best to post any interesting this that I find on Craigslist.

Thanks for the advice and your time!

Jim Leach

I suggest you take a look over at www.diyaudio.com and you can literally build your entire system

This sounds awesome. We built a crappy little audio amplifier last semester in one of my circuit theory classes basically out of LM741s (if that means anything). I don't really have enough experience with analog filter design to actually figure out the entirity of the internals, but I'm could figure it out with enough time and research.

1) You get a lot of pride doing it yourself.

I'm so excited to build this, and I've love all of the projects that I have been working on the past couple years.

2) It will sound better than a lot of commercial stuff out there (even the mega-buck stuff)

Thats good news. I mean, at the end of the day, there isn't any special magic that they put into high end stuff. Still resistors, caps, inductors, et all.

3) You can probably arrange some class credit for doing it too!

Sadly, this is one year too late! Last year, we were given an option to pick up a project to demonstrait our circuit theory skills. I'd love to get extra credit for building something that I would do anyway.

I'm not sure how far I want to go with D to A conversion. Currently I am in a digital signal processing class, so I'm learning the nity grity of it, but I kinda just want to keep it simple, and just make it a record player... But I guess, that will end up being a huge frusteration at times. I'll have to ponder that, but I guess it makes sense to just add it.

I think it might be more prudent to taylor it to work with my computer, but I'll cross that bridge when I get there

Ohhhh, what am I getting myself into! And I really need help finding the turntable that will be great.

Thanks all!

[aislepathlight]

Just did a quick serach on craigslist. I'm assuming I won't find anything great, but I'd rather check with you guys.

What I'm most interested in getting a hold of is a high quality turntable that will be at a good price for what it is, and will be something that I will be happy to have even with the temptation of upgrading.

Philibs

Philips 308 Turntable (Made in Holland; 33 & 45 speed) -- needs new belt and motor tune-up


Technics

Something marketed as "Technics Stero system"

Turntable Record LP with cartridge, Technics SL-Q20 Semi-Auto Direct Drive, $120

TECHNICS QUARTZ SL - J 33 Turntable - $110

Technics SL-B20 Turntable w/cartridge and needle is included in a set that is going for a total of $275

Technics SL1500- $140


Sony

Sony PS-LX250H Automatic Belt-Drive Turntable - $45

SONY Linear Stereo Turntable PS-LX520 - $40

SONY PS-LX285 is included in a set with a bunch of other equipment which is going for $50 total


Dual

Dual Turntable CS 1254 for $50

DUAL 1257 Turntable - $65


Pioneer

Pioneer PL 540 Turntable - $80

PIONEER PL 120 II belt drive turntable - $80


Everything Else

Thorens TD 125 Mk II Turntable, Audiophile Classic - $400 OBO Seems a bit steep, but if its a great deal, and its something that I keep forever, its not a bad thing to spend money on, right?

Vintage Sansui 4 Channel Receiver/Amplifier + 4 Sansui 100 Watt SP-3500 Speakers $800 (note that he is going to part it out if it doesn't go this week) Also, the same seller has a "Dual 1219 Turntable with Walnut Base and Cover" I guess this included in the whole package, but I'm not sure.

Record/LP Turntable, Onkyo CP1100A with cartridge, NO COVER, $50

Akai AP-Q41 turntable - $55

[aislepathlight]

I just searched the Cleveland Craigslist, and turned up the following.


Bang and Olufsen(and a Mitsubishi with a B & O cartridge)

Bang & Olufsen Beogram 1900 - $175

Bang & Olufsen Beogram 1602 turntable and B&O MMC 10E Cartridge $250

Misubishi DP5 direct drive turntable w Bang and Olfsen cartridge - $110


Pioneer

Turntable Pioneer model PL 570 - $30

Pioneer PL-100 is listed with 100 records for $100. I have no idea what that means in terms of the unit itself.

Pioneer PL-512 Stereo Turntable - $75


Everyone else!

Sanyo belt drive turntable w pickering cartridge - $65

Sony direct drive turntable mdl PS T1 - $60

60's JVC nivico turntable - $50

Marantz SR2000 stereo - $325

[Jim Leach]

The pricing is a pretty good indication of the quality; however I find that if I go to eBay and search for the item, and then in the Left column check the "completed listings' box, you can see what that item actually sold for.

Good resource for sure!

Other than the Thorens (which is a classic) which I would suggest if the condition is good and you are pleased with it, is to avoid the B&O tables. They look cool, but I think for the same money you can do better.

The Technics SL1500 may be a nice starter table as well- they are pretty bulletproof, although not necessarily the best sounding tables out there (but FAR from the worst).

Note with Craig's list, you could always call up and make and offer- a lot of times things a re listed a bit higher than what a seller will accept (sort of a reverse eBay system). At least you know you won't spend MORE than the price you see...

[tdat7192]

I have to agree with Jim L. either the Thoren's 125 or Technics 1500 would serve you well as a first table.

If you end up not taking the time to DIY, you may look at an old receiver. Find one with a phono-pre-amp and a few other inputs. Then hook your turntable and even your computer into it and enjoy. The pricing on the most desireable models tend to be very high. However, oftentimes there are lesser powered models that are less desireable by collectors and can be purchased for significantly less. But do check first, because sometimes the lack of cost is because the model is not up to the same standards.

With regard to speakers, I may opt for newer. Paradigm, Polk, Mordaunt Short, Definitive Technologies, PSB all have speakers that are well thought of and relatively inexpensive. There are many other's besides. However, that isn't to say that you may find a local pair of great older speakers either. Personally, I have found it more difficult to purchase used speakers in a successful way.
You also may want to search these forums for "inexpensive" etc and see what other's have done or what was recommended to others in your situation.

(Makes me think that a sticky could be warranted: First Time Audio Builders)

Oh and love the Sony headphones you have!

[aislepathlight]

Thanks all for the great responses.

I'll spend more time later thinking and responding, but I just hopped on craigslist to see if there was anything cool up today. Any thoughts on the following?

GARRARD Model RC88 $100 seems old and cool, no?

Luxman PD-264 - $275

Rotel RP900 High Perf. + extras - $255 (The seller is throwing in 25 records, for better or worse)

Restored Marantz 6025 Turntable, New Belt & Stylus - $125

Pioneer PL-4 turntable - $40 has a faulty speed regulator, or so the seller says

Sansui FR-Q5 Turntable - $25

[Jim Leach]

I like that luxman, and it seems that some intelligent mods were done to it.

Gerrards ARE old and cool- sort of a cult following it seems. If you like it, you will have plenty of support for modifications. Not my cup of tea.

Avoid the Pioneer- it said it doesn't hold speed. Might cost a ton to rectify. If it was free, it might be worth trying to fix up.

Marantz might be OK; they are generally quality products. I just tend to avoid "Auto" anything on a table because they often fail at some point.

Not familiar with the Rotel. They have good and bad products, so maybe someone can chime in on that particular model. A goggle search may help you out.

In fact (unless I saw that sansui and changed my mind) I think of what you show here, that Luxman is how I'd spend my money.

My neighbor who does a lot of digitizing of LPs has a BEAUTIFUL sansui table that is his main table. I don't know the model of it.

[aislepathlight]

Jim, I PMed you, and thanks again for the advice. I asked the people over in the Garrard forum, and they said that there was nothing special about it. And I'll keep thinking about the Luxman, but I'd rather have something that was outstanding, rather than meh.

I'll keep posting tables as I find them online, if thats ok!

PHILIPS 312 $100

[GaryA]

Luxman is one of the true high-end brands in the Japanese offerings. A little research on that model will probably convince you.

If you are in NYC I have a Technics SL-1200 that you can have very cheap.

[GaryA]

One more idea: a Yamaha integrated amp is a great starting point and I have found them in great shape for $50 a few times. They are a quality bit of kit.

[aislepathlight]

Hey,

Thanks for the offer!

I'm in DC right now, and I'm headed home to cleveland ohio in a couple weeks. But I've got a ton of work to do and I've been feeling under the weather, so not much time for me to hop on VE.

I'll be back in a couple weeks!

Thakns all for your help!