Cartridge Alignment On Music Hall Mmf-5

[bumpy]

As far as I can tell, every cartridge I've installed is aligned correctly when positioned fully forward in the tonearm slots of my MMF-5. This has been the case for a Shure M97xE, an Ortofon 2M Blue, and also when I reinstalled the original Goldring 1012gx for a week between the Shure and the Ortofon.

Is that right, or am I not using the protractors correctly? Also, with all of its angles it's hard to tell if the 2M is aligned squarely with the lines on the protractor. I have used the EnjoyTheMusic protractor, a Shure 2-point protractor, and the "stupid" Baerwald protractor from this site, but I'm somewhat uncertain of my abilities in this area and am looking for a sanity check from someone with more cartridge alignment experience.

Has anyone installed any of the above carts on this table? Were they correctly aligned when fully forward (furthest from the pivot) in the tonearm slots?

Thanks!!

[Conrad Hoffman]

Well, try mine here. The beauty of an arc template/protractor is there's no guesswork with exactly the dimension that's giving you trouble. Read the read-me that comes with it.

With odd shaped cartridges you can make some little paper L-brackets and tape them to the template, usually at the rear of the cartridge. I find this very helpful with tapered cartridges like the OM series. I think of them as "training wheels". If the back of the cartridge is centered side to side between the L-brackets, and the stylus is on the mark and centered from the front there's not much else to go wrong. Without good references, the eye is easily fooled.

Conrad

[westcoast92126]

I have a Music Hall MMF 2.2 and found a downloaded Lofgren B protractor (using effective length of 199 .. I think) matched dead on when cartridges were installed fully forward (like what you are observing).

[bumpy]

Thanks for the replies guys. I'll give your suggestions a try.

Anybody else align one of the previously mentioned carts on an MMF-5? Did it end up at the end of its travel? Is the factory installed Goldring 1012gx mounted all the way forward in the tonearm slots? (I stupidly didn't note its placement before removing it.)

[cafe latte]

Just typed a detailed explanation for the project xperience thread.

[Bob_in_OKC]

Thanks for the replies guys. I'll give your suggestions a try.

Anybody else align one of the previously mentioned carts on an MMF-5? Did it end up at the end of its travel? Is the factory installed Goldring 1012gx mounted all the way forward in the tonearm slots? (I stupidly didn't note its placement before removing it.)

The effective length for this tonearm is specified by Pro-Ject as 218.5 mm, with an overhang of 18.5 mm. This means...the horizontal distance from the center of the tonearm pivot to the tip of the stylus should be 218.5 and the horizontal distance along that same line from the center of the spindle to the tip of the tip should be 18.5 mm.

If you move the cartridge so that the stylus sits at the specified distance before you attempt to align the cartridge to a protractor you'll be able to get it aligned to the Baerwald two-point protractor within a very short time...at least, that's been my experience on an MMF-5.

I did use a Goldring 1042 (same physical dimensions as yours) on my MMF-5 and it was not all the way forward.

[bumpy]

The effective length for this tonearm is specified by Pro-Ject as 218.5 mm, with an overhang of 18.5 mm.

I wonder if this is right. Music Hall states in the MMF-5 manual that it's 241.3mm & 18mm. Are they mistaken?

[Bob_in_OKC]

The effective length for this tonearm is specified by Pro-Ject as 218.5 mm, with an overhang of 18.5 mm.

I wonder if this is right. Music Hall states in the MMF-5 manual that it's 241.3mm & 18mm. Are they mistaken?

It's far more likely that I made a mistake than that Music Hall did, but are you perhaps looking at the manual for a MMF-5.1? It has a different tonearm than the MMF-5.

[bumpy]

are you perhaps looking at the manual for a MMF-5.1? It has a different tonearm than the MMF-5.

Now I'm really confused! According to the manuals downloadable from the library section of this site, the MMF-5, MMF-5.1, MMF-7, MMF-7.1 and MMF-9.1 all have tonearms with effective length of 241.3mm and overhang of 18mm.

The manual that actually came with my MMF-5 says that it's 9" and .06", which would be 228.6mm and 1.524mm overhang (which can't possibly be right).

Sheesh...

[Bob_in_OKC]

are you perhaps looking at the manual for a MMF-5.1? It has a different tonearm than the MMF-5.

Now I'm really confused! According to the manuals downloadable from the library section of this site, the MMF-5, MMF-5.1, MMF-7, MMF-7.1 and MMF-9.1 all have tonearms with effective length of 241.3mm and overhang of 18mm.

The manual that actually came with my MMF-5 says that it's 9" and .06", which would be 228.6mm and 1.524mm overhang (which can't possibly be right).

Sheesh...

Could you measure the distance from the center of your pivot to the center of the spindle, so we know if we're talking about the same model? I would suggest downloading the manual for the Pro-Ject 1.2 or Xpression III and see if that looks like your tonearm.

[bumpy]

Pivot to center of spindle looks to be about 222mm.

Pivot to stylus looks to be 236ish (can't really be sure). It certainly appears to be less than 241.

In general, the arm looks like the one on the Project 1.2 and Xpression III tables, but I'm not certain if the dimensions are the same.

BTW: My MMF-5 is from 2001.

It looks like this:
http://farm5.static.flickr.com/4015/471 ... 4939_z.jpg

[Bob_in_OKC]

Pivot to center of spindle looks to be about 222mm.

Pivot to stylus looks to be 236ish (can't really be sure). It certainly appears to be less than 241.

In general, the arm looks like the one on the Project 1.2 and Xpression III tables, but I'm not certain if the dimensions are the same.

BTW: My MMF-5 is from 2001.

It looks like this:
http://farm5.static.flickr.com/4015/471 ... 4939_z.jpg

That's actually my photo from when I was selling it. It had a Goldring 2200 on it at the time.

If you're getting around 222 mm from pivot to spindle, you might indeed have the model that has an effective tonearm length of 241.3 mm, with a specified overhang of 18 mm. That would make the specified pivot-to-spindle distance 223.3 mm.

Using the Vinyl Engine calculator...For the Baerwald alignment, overhang would be 17.2 mm and effective length would be 240.5 mm. This overhang of 17.2 mm came out shorter than Music Hall's spec, so I would guess all the way forward isn't going to be your best option.

[bumpy]

That's actually my photo...

Heh - small world, eh?

It seems that maybe the key to this situation is getting a really accurate pivot to spindle measurement. Any suggestions on how to easily accomplish that?

The MMF-5 specification on this site of 223.3mm doesn't seem right. I'm getting more like 221 or 222 when I try to measure it, but that's a bit of a guesstimate due to the difference in spindle and pivot height.

[Bob_in_OKC]

That's actually my photo...

Heh - small world, eh?

It seems that maybe the key to this situation is getting a really accurate pivot to spindle measurement. Any suggestions on how to easily accomplish that?

The MMF-5 specification on this site of 223.3mm doesn't seem right. I'm getting more like 221 or 222 when I try to measure it, but that's a bit of a guesstimate due to the difference in spindle and pivot height.

I measured my Debut III by setting an Architect scale on the dustcover. I looked straight down at the pivot point and aligned it there and then did the same at the spindle. It was an estimate that might be no more accurate than your measurement.

If you base your overhang calculation on 222 instead of 223.3, it would be within 0.1 mm of the same overhang. If I were looking to find out the answer to your original question...whether the cartridge should be all the way forward to align to a Baerwald protractor...I'd set the ruler on the mat, against the spindle and aimed at the pivot point. I would then look from the side and adjust the cartridge out to 17.2 mm past the spindle and see where I am in the headshell slots. With the cartridge screws semi-tight at that distance, I'd twist it to align with the Baerwald grid.