Turntable noise with Zoom h4N

[shambhavi]

I am a newbie trying to copy my old vinyl collection to CD using a Hitachi PS-48 TT and recording to a Zoom H4N portable recorder. Unfortunately, I am getting a very loud (About the same volume as the music content) buzzing with a hum as well. Reading various forums I assume (hope?) that this is a grounding issue. What I don't know is how to ground the TT to the same earth as the Zoom recorder when the Zoom is a portable battery powered device with no ground connection, or uses a 2 pin plugpack power source with no third ground wire.

Any advice gratefully received.

[Alec124c41]

Where is the phono pre-amp? I think you have an older, solidly built turntable, and you need a phono pre-amp to properly equalize the audio signal, and to boost it to line level. The turntable would be grounded to this. Here's one:
http://www.lpgear.com/Merchant2/merchan ... ry_Code=PP

Cheers,
Alec

[jiiteepee]

...
What I don't know is how to ground the TT to the same earth as the Zoom recorder when the Zoom is a portable battery powered device with no ground connection, or uses a 2 pin plugpack power source with no third ground wire.
...

This may help; connect the ground wire coming from turntable to one of the turntable RCA connector grounds.

jiitee

[shambhavi]

Thanks for the suggestions. The phono output signal strength is fine for the Zoom (I checked recording levels) so no pre-amp needed. Hence my original query. I will try connecting ground to RCA as suggested and see if that works. I'll report back the result.

[jiiteepee]

Thanks for the suggestions. The phono output signal strength is fine for the Zoom (I checked recording levels) so no pre-amp needed. Hence my original query. I will try connecting ground to RCA as suggested and see if that works. I'll report back the result.

... but the phono pre-amp normally includes RIAA correction which is needed.

What you're doing there is so called flat transfer ... you need to add RIAA EQ afterwards in digital domain --> here are some software to do that (std RIAA EQ):

http://jiiteepee.fortunecity.com/riaafilter/index.html

I suggest VST version (you can use VST plug-ins in many commonly used playback software (foobar, winamp, wmp, ...) through DSP addon).

jiitee

[shambhavi]

Well, I tried to connect the ground on the RCA connectors out of the TT to the earth on the TT itself. No result: same loud buzz. But then I read on another forum in a review of the Zoom H4N recorder where they mentioned that there is a gold plated earth "ring" on the 3.5mm external mic input on the zoom. So I simply inserted (slid in between), the flat 'spade shaped' connector of the TT earth wire between the 3.5mm stereo male input and the Zooms' 3.5mm female input jack. This Worked! No Humm. No Buzz! And good recording levels direct from the Phono pickup 3.5-4mV.

Regarding jiiteepee's comment re: the RIAA filter. I had never heard of that, but it explains why my recording sounded really "tinny" (Thanks). I thought maybe my cartridge calibration must have been rubbish! But I have discovered that freeware Audacity software which I use, also has an RIAA equalisation filter built in , so I will use that to achieve the same result I hope - unless someone knows of issues with this approach.

[jiiteepee]

...

...

I have discovered that freeware Audacity software which I use, also has an RIAA equalisation filter built in , so I will use that to achieve the same result I hope - unless someone knows of issues with this approach.

Last time I checked the RIAA EQ preset found in Audacity it wasn't very accurate ... .

http://www.hydrogenaudio.org/forums/ind ... opic=74336


jiitee

[shambhavi]

Thanks for the feedback on audacity RIAA. Problem for me is that I'm a Linux user (Currently Linux Mint 10). Is there any good Linux software that can do the RIAA equalisation well for me?

[jiiteepee]

Is there any good Linux software that can do the RIAA equalisation well for me?

For VST plug-ins in Linux, have you tried if Windows recording/playback software works in Wine (Reaper, etc.)?

Recording software (with VST support) for Linux:
energyXT for linux - http://www.energy-xt.com/index.php?id=0113


jiitee

[shambhavi]

Thanks for the suggestion jiiteepee. I had a go installing Reaper under wine (The energy-xt was too expensive for me). It loads and seems to work fine. But I couldn't figure out how to get RIAA equalisation with it. Does anyone know how I can do this? I tried installing the plugin mentioned above to the plugins folder, but Reaper doesn't seem to recognise it.

Thanks for the help so far. Slowly, I seem to be getting there.

[jiiteepee]

Thanks for the suggestion jiiteepee. I had a go installing Reaper under wine (The energy-xt was too expensive for me). It loads and seems to work fine. But I couldn't figure out how to get RIAA equalisation with it. Does anyone know how I can do this? I tried installing the plugin mentioned above to the plugins folder, but Reaper doesn't seem to recognise it.

Thanks for the help so far. Slowly, I seem to be getting there.

Those 'plug-ins' found from my RIAA pages, are in project file level ...you need to save each filter as VST in SynthEdit to get them working.

Anyway, here's another RIAA EQ developed by vacuumsound you can try - http://www.vacuumsound.de/plugins.html

Some instructions:
Unzip the downloaded file to somewhere you can point Reaper to look it from.
On Reaper,
- goto Options --> Preferences and select Plug-ins: VST from the list
- add the path you installed RIAA filter to and then just press re-scan button
- set audio device options as well
- on Reaper main screen, add a new stereo track or load the recorded track
------ if you record then set recording options 1st (right-mouse-click the ar - button found in track 'header' (ar = arm for recording)) *)
--- insert your plug-in by using track's FX -button (use balloon beside the FX button for to control if the FX is enabled or disabled)

*) I normally add the RIAA while recording ... if you like to do this as well, select Record: output -> Record: output (stereo) - option.

jiitee

[shambhavi]

Anyway, here's another RIAA EQ developed by vacuumsound you can try - http://www.vacuumsound.de/plugins.html

Many thanks for this. Ironically, I managed to get your earlier mentioned RIAA plugin installed in Reaper before I read this one. Now installed both! Is one "better" than the other?

One last question (I Hope!). When the RIAA plugin is selected in Reaper and I drag a .wav file into the application, do I need to "apply" the filter (like in Audacity) or does the mere selection of the plugin mean it is applied automatically and I can just re-save the file? I read the Reaper documentation, but it mostly refers to recording rather than editing an imported file, so I guess I just don't follow how to do it with a pre-recorded audio file.

[jiiteepee]

Many thanks for this. Ironically, I managed to get your earlier mentioned RIAA plugin installed in Reaper before I read this one. Now installed both! Is one "better" than the other?

I suppose it's easier to use vacuumsound plug-in since it has all samplerates in one plugin so no need to change plug-in when change samplerate.

One last question (I Hope!). When the RIAA plugin is selected in Reaper and I drag a .wav file into the application, do I need to "apply" the filter (like in Audacity) or does the mere selection of the plugin mean it is applied automatically and I can just re-save the file? I read the Reaper documentation, but it mostly refers to recording rather than editing an imported file, so I guess I just don't follow how to do it with a pre-recorded audio file.

You need to load the VST plug-in through FX button found in track 'header'.



With Reaper, you can record output = apply effects while recording.
To apply RIAA EQ afterwards, you need to render the audio file(s). Here are some instructions for Reaper - http://jiiteepee.fortunecity.com/audio/ ... rohje.html

If you're famliar with Audacity, have you checked if there is VST wrapper plug-in available?

jiitee

[shambhavi]

If you're familiar with Audacity, have you checked if there is VST wrapper plug-in available?

From the Audacity wiki:

There is no Audacity support for VST on Linux, where the technology is little used.

(!)

But remember that earlier in this post we mentioned that Audacity already includes RIAA Eq, but your advice was that it wasn't as well implemented as the VST plugins suggested. Hence my efforts to install Reaper under wine in linux and install VST plugins for the job. Thanks to the link:
http://jiiteepee.fortunecity.com/audio/Reaper_instructions/Reaperohje.html, I think I have now understood enough to go ahead and start ripping my old vinyls [after a thorough cleaning ]

Many thanks for the assistance jiiteepee.