Technics Stock Leads Capacitance Way Too High!!

by **fscl** » 03 Aug 2010 00:51

todd95008 wrote:I too had the same issue as cafe latte (mine measured 320pf w/an accurate L-C meter) !!
My old leads had the same markings as cafe latte.
I replaced them with the MG5 cable that now measures 75pf including tonearm wires.

I sent Kevin at KAB a message last week about this and he is looking into it....

Todd

Welcome to VE.....

This is an interesting / intriguing thread. :-k

So far, somewhere btw 2006 / Werner's unit and clatte's / t5008's unit the leads were changed...... :shock:

which changes the "sound?" of the tt.

Which makes me wonder if all the postings ie bnut vs clatte are all / partially due to this? :idea:

.

How aggravating...... :shock:

This also makes recommending cartridges that would work well on the 1200 difficult, we're talking 2 different 1200s. Is this why I've read that the DL-160s do well on the SL?....

Sheesh.....what's a consumer to do? :twisted:

Fred and this is why we LOVE VE......

to compare notes.....

by **todd95008** » 03 Aug 2010 01:17

cafe latte wrote:Interesting that is 3 people now with this issue and not all in Aus, How old is your TT Todd?? Also can you keep me informed what Kab say?

Mine was shipped from KAB late in June 2010 !!
Kevin says it it the most recent production.
He has read this thread and has the cable markings numbers that are bad (AWM 2562 E81015 VW1 80C 300V HSD LF).

He tells me that good cables he has looked at have a center insulator (red/white) diameter of about .10" and are marked "Mighty Wire" (E220774 AWM STYLE 2555)

I sent him a message today (after reading this thread) that the insulator diameter of my bad (300pf +) cable was only .048"

It's funny, that he thought I was the one who started this thread..

I had an Ortofon 2M red installed and had what I thought (and now know) was a peak in the lower to mid trebble with a fast drop of above that. My preamp has 200pf input C and with the cable I was over 500pf !!
This caused a huge peak about 5-7khz.

I changed to the MG5 cable and also to a new AT440MLA cartridge that work well !!!

Todd

by **cafe latte** » 03 Aug 2010 03:26

Finally we are getting to the bottom of this

. So it is a new type of cable that is the problem it seems :-k

. Yes I think it may be the case that one the reasons for such polarised views on Technics TT's is if you get one with these leads and fit them with a MM cart it won't sound good at all, possibly why the dl160 always sounds good, but I feel that since changing my leads even that sounds better, but the sure is totally another cart with the lower capacitance much much wider and cleaner.
Well done Todd on your discovery!!
fscl yes it changes the sound a lot, I would call it closed it before, but I did not notice as you are used to it, but it was like popping your ears when I changed the cables, with the sure at least.

by **todd95008** » 03 Aug 2010 05:16

Here is the last message I got tonight from Kevin at KAB...

Hi,
I went back through my cable box tonite and found 3 sets of this new cable.
Measured it and got 318pf.

This new cable was introduced sometime this year, but I am unable to nail it
down any better than that.

The details are as follows.

Older 2008/2009 cable measures 120pF
Marked:
E220774 AWM STYLE 2555 80C 300V VW-1 MIGHTY WIRE
This is a stiff cable and appears to be polyethylene insulation

The newer cable measures 318pF part number RJL2P009S12
Marked:
AWM 2562 E81015 VW-1 80C 300V HSD LF
This is a very flexible cable and appears to be PVC insulation.
------------------------------------------------------------------
This cable is out of specification per the SL-1200 owners manual.
------------------------------------------------------------------
My current stock of MK2's is actually 2009 now and has the older cable.
As more 2010 stock becomes the norm, this will have to be dealt with
however, because for Moving Magnet cartridges, it is not possible to load
them properly with a cable capacitance exceeding 300pF.

Taking into account most preamps have internal capacitance of 100pF and some
even higher, the absolute maximum capacitance attributed to the cable should
not exceed 170pF based on popular cartridge load specifications of
270pF//47Kohm

I am sending this to Panasonic quality control. No promises of any changes,
but there is at least the responsibility to let them know.

Thanks for your help in bringing this to our attention.

Kevin

KAB Electro Acoustics
Preserving The Sounds Of A Lifetime

by **cafe latte** » 03 Aug 2010 06:14

Great work Todd!! I have tried to contact Kevin re what would be better cable to use as the one I used stops me from installing the base plate have you got his contact?

by **cafe latte** » 03 Aug 2010 07:00

Now we have nailed this down, big thanks to for advising me to check the capacitance in the first place and all his help, now I can really enjoy my sl1210 with new leads

by **todd95008** » 03 Aug 2010 07:41

cafe latte wrote:Great work Todd!! I have tried to contact Kevin re what would be better cable to use as the one I used stops me from installing the base plate have you got his contact?

His contact is on the KAB web site: www.kabusa.com

You can try to enlarge the opening (where the old bushing was) in the round bottom plate to provide enough room for the new cables to pass thru.
Then either drill some holes to tie cable down or add some cable tie mounts to tie them down.

The MG5 cable I swapped into mine was thicker than the El cheapo stock cable so I could not get the strain relief bushing back on.
I just used one of the two bushing mounting holes to screw down a cable tie mount and tied the new cable to that !!

Todd

by **Werner** » 03 Aug 2010 08:03

Cafe,

perhaps it is wise to post a summary of this on the various other vinyl-centric fora, such as Audio Asylum and Pink Fish.

by **cafe latte** » 03 Aug 2010 08:04

Do you send to the info@kabusa.com?? I wanted to ask Kevin what is the thickest cables that will fit. The cables I have fitted prevent the plate going on so I want to either fit thinner cables so it will just go on, or make a new plate and put phono sockets on it and just plug leads into that.

by **todd95008** » 03 Aug 2010 19:28

cafe latte wrote:Do you send to the info@kabusa.com?? I wanted to ask Kevin what is the thickest cables that will fit.

Yes, that is the original e-mail address I sent him the bad cable info on !!
He is the best one to hekp you with the bottom plate since he does rewire upgrades all the time....

by **aabottom** » 03 Aug 2010 23:07

Very interesting thread. Thanks for all the great posts.

It's time to experiment...

by **cafe latte** » 04 Aug 2010 00:17

Yes posting a summary, or a lik on other forums may be a good idea. Is anyone already a memer of these sites, if so they could post a link, if not I will do it.

by **cafe latte** » 04 Aug 2010 00:46

Thanks mate, one down a couple to go!!

by **Werner** » 04 Aug 2010 07:10

I just did Audio Asylum and Pink Fish.