The BEST turntable ever built

[flavio81]

Objective tests, measurements, and controlled listening tests are more valuable in discussion. The question of which turntables that is "most neutral" against the master copy can only be solved by double-blind testing, but I will not go into that debate again. It has been done before, albeit in a simpler way (e.g. JE at Vinyl Asylum).

Agree!!
Do you have links for the JE's double-blind test you mention?

[Thomas_A]

Objective tests, measurements, and controlled listening tests are more valuable in discussion. The question of which turntables that is "most neutral" against the master copy can only be solved by double-blind testing, but I will not go into that debate again. It has been done before, albeit in a simpler way (e.g. JE at Vinyl Asylum).

Agree!!
Do you have links for the JE's double-blind test you mention?

No, I do not have any links at the moment. It was mostly recorded material that was sent around (on CD-R) for listening tests - but also the recorded material was "not good enough" according to some. I recall he and an inmate made a recording from a Rockport Sirius, and it was not possible with confidence to tell the copy from the live Rockport TT.

I also recall another site making a comparison using a simple TT vs a more competent. The guessings were more or less random.

I don't say there are differences - but controlled listening tests are difficult. Just small deviations in speed are quite easily detected. Cartridges must be the same as well, within spec (there are individual variations). Tonearm may influence the resonance etc.

T

[Ldg]

I know it's super-sacrilige, but I read about people converting cutting lathes into playback tables. I suppose, by definition, that is as good as it gets in reality. If accuracy is the goal.

Many lathes shipped with or had room to mount an arm. Or do you mean they are attaching the cartridge to the feed screw or something, which would almost definately not end well for all concerned.

Think that's right, there's mounting for an arm built in ! Seems like sacrilige on one hand, but expect good things methinks. I could never do it, unless kept the whole lot intact and it was unusable as a cuttingbed, I think. Not a chance of getting domestic permissions either !! But can dream......

[analogous]

I know it's super-sacrilige, but I read about people converting cutting lathes into playback tables. I suppose, by definition, that is as good as it gets in reality. If accuracy is the goal.

In 1973 I got myself a Neumann disk-cutting lathe.

....

In 1983 when the CD was introduced, I sold the Neumann lathe to a crazy japanese audiophile who converted the lathe to a "super grammophone" for vinyl record playback! Severe audiophilia madness!

http://web.telia.com/~u05300292/

Many audiophiles in Japan bought up Neumann cutters as they became obsolete and were heading for recycling in America and Europe. I can see nothing the least sacrilegious about it.

This is why I do not like Stereophile. Stereophile would rather push the Linn LP12 on its readers in 1983 than a used Neumann cutter. Stereophile would never do anything for free.

Stereophile is THE ENEMY #1. It is the enemy of everything that is good and decent. Not a single good thing has come out of the magazine in its 50 year existence. It is all bad with no redeeming value whatsoever.

[flavio81]

This is why I do not like Stereophile. Stereophile would rather push the Linn LP12 on its readers in 1983 than a used Neumann cutter. Stereophile would never do anything for free.

Stereophile is THE ENEMY #1. It is the enemy of everything that is good and decent.

I hear you brother!!
Hear, hear!!

[JoeE SP9]

Disliking Stereophile or any magazine because they don't adhere to your own personal agenda is just as bad as what you claim Stereophile does. What is it with people getting offended because their choice doesn't get chosen? I've been subscribing to Stereophile since the early 80's. I don't see or read any of the biases you keep claiming are there. You don't like Linn's, so what. I don't either. However, I don't use my dislike as an opportunity to berate a magazine for liking something I don't.
You guys are beginning to sound like Pioneer HPM-100 lovers/owners. They take up arms when their beloved HPM's are described in any way but as the best thing since sliced bread.

Grow up. There is room for everybody and their opinion in this hobby.

For the record, I wouldn't take a cutting lathe or a pair of HPM-100's even were they given to me. Well, I might because some wing nut would want them for a price.

[analogous]

Disliking Stereophile or any magazine because they don't adhere to your own personal agenda is just as bad as what you claim Stereophile does. What is it with people getting offended because their choice doesn't get chosen? I've been subscribing to Stereophile since the early 80's. I don't see or read any of the biases you keep claiming are there. You don't like Linn's, so what. I don't either. However, I don't use my dislike as an opportunity to berate a magazine for liking something I don't.

Don't put words in my mouth. Have you no manners?

It is not about x vs. y. This is about saving the Neumann cutters. There were only around 30 Neumann VMS 82s made. They are rare today. If one turned up for sale it might bring $100,000. But there was a time they could be picked up for next to nothing.

Lots of them could have been saved if Stereophile had only mentioned them. But Stereophile could not even do that. It did not care. Total indifference.

Evey time Stereophile could have made a positive contribution, it chose not to. 50 years of being on the side of wrong.

You guys are beginning to sound like Pioneer HPM-100 lovers/owners. They take up arms when their beloved HPM's are described in any way but as the best thing since sliced bread.

Grow up. There is room for everybody and their opinion in this hobby.

For the record, I wouldn't take a cutting lathe or a pair of HPM-100's even were they given to me. Well, I might because some wing nut would want them for a price.

Who do you think you are telling me to grow up?

No, there is no room for Stereophile. Their brand of consumerism does not benefit the hobby.

Nobody cares if you want a Neumann cutter or not. Most people who saw Avatar have no interest in pre-war Hollywood props.

This is about those who care. And those who do not. If you or somebody else do not care really does not matter. But it does matter when a major magazine, like Stereophile, does not care. It is shameful and sad at the same time.

[flavio81]

I've been subscribing to Stereophile since the early 80's.

That can be labeled as 'biased opinion' too, so why is your opinion more valid than ours?

Grow up. There is room for everybody and their opinion in this hobby.

We are stating our opinion too. If you have problems with us stating our opinion, then we can follow your above advice and tell you to "grow up".

And for Stereophile, i would not mention all the things that are wrong with it since they've been mentioned by me & many others in several threads across the forum.

[Ldg]

For the record, I wouldn't take a cutting lathe.........even were they given to me.

Dibs ! In the unlikely event, send it my way

[Alec124c41]

Gee, and I bought a pair of Pioneer HPM-100s! At a yard sale, true, for $5, and essentially rebuilt them for nothing. They don't sound bad at all now, and make excellent supports for a tabletop in my workroom.
They actually are very well built, but IIRC a bit more fiberglass was needed to clean up the bottom end.
And the best turntable is the one I'm listening to.

Cheers,
Alec

[Damien Taylor]

I also offer shelter for homeless lathes.

[Dadimo]

Can anybody identify this turntable? I think this pic was posted a while back

[stuartypoorty]

Can anybody identify this turntable? I think this pic was posted a while back

A Basis Work Of Art turntable.

Lots more here; http://www.tapeheads.net/showthread.php?t=4569

[JoeE SP9]

When is any magazine supposed to be a savior of any piece of gear just because someone is fond of it? If there were any publications protesting the loss of specific lathes I would have supposed it would be those publications that deal with "pro" gear and recording/mastering tools.

Stereophile is aimed at people who listen to music not those who make it.

I put no words in anyone's mouth. I merely questioned berating a publication for not following someones specific list of favorite gear.

Stereophile is not the same magazine it was when JGH started it. Neither is this hobby or anything else.

ld;
If I come across a Neumann lathe you'll be the first to know.