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Sp10 Mk.ii V. Fully Modded Sl-1200?

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SP10 Mk.II v. Fully Modded SL-1200?

Postby ksoholm » 11 Dec 2009 21:47

Lads,
Any input on this fight? SL-1200 would be with Mike New bearing, PS, platter mat, and strobe disabler, both tables with the same arm.

Best,

Kristian
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Postby mikenew » 11 Dec 2009 22:39

I understand that the SL1200 has a better frequency lock circuit than the SP10, and it would have more up-to-date components.
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Postby ksoholm » 12 Dec 2009 04:59

Dave,

It'd be on a Technics plinth and stock PS.

Your questions answer my question, though; it'd be a very closerun thing in any case!

Best,

Kristian
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Postby zharca » 12 Dec 2009 10:49

The SP10 in the right version would prove far and away the best buy.

The 1200, especially as a used buy, gets good performance on a budget but throw heap of money at it and you still have a mass-market turntable waiting for the next bit to be changed (feet? platter? plinth?) and you'll lose quite a lot on it when you come to sell.

The SP10, by contrast, is beautifully engineered and built and is one of the few hi-fi components that is appreciating in value. Standard plinth? - one of the obsidian ones? Standard power supply? There's several, at least 3 from the BBC.

If you choose your version carefully and buy wisely an SP10 is a pretty good investment and it won't look out of place in any system.
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Re: SP10 Mk.II v. Fully Modded SL-1200?

Postby ssportclay » 12 Dec 2009 15:38

ksoholm wrote:Lads,
Any input on this fight? SL-1200 would be with Mike New bearing, PS, platter mat, and strobe disabler, both tables with the same arm.

Best,

Kristian


I would think that if you do similar upgrades to either turntable that you will end up with pretty much the same thing. The SP10 is easier to plinth and probably needs fewer things done to it depending on how picky you are and also how worn out the turntable is. The 1200 MK2 is still being manufactured so if electronic boards become toast, you just replace them. I see a lot of SP10s in some very nicely engineered heavy plinths while most 1200s remain in their stock plinths. Very little development has been done in this area. I suppose that a fully modified 1200 epoxy bedded into a massive baltic birch plywood plinth would be fully equal to any SP10. This is only possible now due to all of the high quality aftermarket components available for the Technics 1200.
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Postby Trajic » 13 Dec 2009 03:53

I seriously doubt that a MKII 1200 could ever sound better than an SP10MKII. I've had several MKII 1200s, one MKI, an SL120, a 1210 and four or five SP25s. I also currently have an SP10MKII in SL-1000 guise.
I didn't modify my 1200's too much from stock but I did once audition a fully modded KAB 1200 in my system for a week. Nothing I've had so far has come close to the SP10. I'm open to the possibility, of course, but I have my doubts. To even approach the level of an SP10 you'd have to spend a lot of money. This is a hobby for people who like to tinker with their gear so I can see why somebody would want to go down that road. As for me I'm happy with my SL-1000.

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Postby mikenew » 13 Dec 2009 04:43

Trajic,
One thing you seem to forget, is that the bearing design on the SL1200 is, to say the least of somewhat inferior design. Where ever would you find an engineering design for an audio bearing shaft that includes a groove at the point where the utmost rigidity is required, right below the brass taper!!!!

The SL1200 sonics are transformed by the installation of my new Super Precision bearing as has been observed by those who have listened to my own unit, including a former DJ who is now a sound mixer.
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Postby Trajic » 13 Dec 2009 05:06

Miike,

I didn't forget that. I'm actually very interested in the new bearing designs as one of my main decks is an SL-1025. I'm suspending judgement until I can hear one for myself. Until then I think what I read on a shop seems like a fair assessment.

The thing is, everybody says that performing a certain mod "transforms" the sound of a 1200...tonearm, psu, bearing, feet, ect. It all adds up to a lot of money which is why I said that I was open to the possibility of an 1200 approaching the sound quality of a SP10 but it would cost to get there. Believe it or not, your bearing costs half as much as my complete and very nice SL-1000 which I purchased in in early 2008.

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Postby mikenew » 13 Dec 2009 06:07

Brett,
Your comments are well founded and appreciated. I am trying to reduce the cost of the bearings, but the problem is they are manufactured to a very high level of pecision and individeually assembled and set to a master gauge. I do not want to sacrfice quality for price if I can possibly help it.
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Postby Trajic » 13 Dec 2009 10:13

Mike,

You made/make a nice bearing. I certainly understand the cost involved in such an undertaking. I recently made a replacement piston for an espresso machine I was working on. The original was made of aluminum and badly pitted. A friend and I turned one out of brass. An espresso enthusiast that I know was interested in having me make him a piston as well. I told him the truth which was that although I was willing to donate my time my friend, who owns the lathe, surely would not. The cost would be about $100 usd. He was unhappy with that but it's the straight truth. Cheap, considering the time and money it would take to acquire a lathe and learn how to use it.

So, I see where you're coming from. I wasn't suggesting that you should lower the price. The bearing is, after all, a specialty item. I'm just happy that somebody is out there making such a thing.

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Postby ssportclay » 13 Dec 2009 15:15

Trajic wrote:I seriously doubt that a MKII 1200 could ever sound better than an SP10MKII. I've had several MKII 1200s, one MKI, an SL120, a 1210 and four or five SP25s. I also currently have an SP10MKII in SL-1000 guise.
I didn't modify my 1200's too much from stock but I did once audition a fully modded KAB 1200 in my system for a week. Nothing I've had so far has come close to the SP10. I'm open to the possibility, of course, but I have my doubts. To even approach the level of an SP10 you'd have to spend a lot of money. This is a hobby for people who like to tinker with their gear so I can see why somebody would want to go down that road. As for me I'm happy with my SL-1000.

Brett Schultz


A fully modified KAB 1200 utilizes a tweaked stock tonearm and does nothing to the bearing. I am afraid that the 1200 will also have to loose the dead plinth which was designed to withstand extremely loud ear bleeding environments. The big problem with the SP10 is that it is no longer manufactured and is unsupported. Once a circuit board or a critical integrated circuit becomes toast, more than a few tears will be shed. Its a very sad situation when you have to toss a very expensive turntable into the dumpster. It is just a question of time before all the SP10s of the word become landfill.
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Re: SP10 Mk.II v. Fully Modded SL-1200?

Postby analogous » 13 Dec 2009 16:04

ssportclay wrote:I would think that if you do similar upgrades to either turntable that you will end up with pretty much the same thing.


But they are not the same. The SP-10 higher torque than the SL-1200. In the case of the Mk III, it's 10 times higher.

As others have said, the SL-1200 is a budget deck, albeit a great one. Putting a high-price arm on it makes little sense.

Rather than spending money on a high-price arm, get an SP-10 Mk II or, ideally, Mk III.
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Postby analogous » 13 Dec 2009 16:06

ssportclay wrote:I am afraid that the 1200 will also have to loose the dead plinth which was designed to withstand extremely loud ear bleeding environments.


Where did you find that information? Any link?
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Re: SP10 Mk.II v. Fully Modded SL-1200?

Postby ssportclay » 13 Dec 2009 16:33

analogous wrote:
ssportclay wrote:I would think that if you do similar upgrades to either turntable that you will end up with pretty much the same thing.


But they are not the same. The SP-10 higher torque than the SL-1200. In the case of the Mk III, it's 10 times higher.

As others have said, the SL-1200 is a budget deck, albeit a great one. Putting a high-price arm on it makes little sense.

Rather than spending money on a high-price arm, get an SP-10 Mk II or, ideally, Mk III.


The 1200 has enough torque to clean LPs off with lots of pressure. SP10s have stronger motors but is this actually audible? Both turntables are easily strong enough to avoid the needle drag issues that plague many belt drive turntables.
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Postby ssportclay » 13 Dec 2009 16:53

analogous wrote:
ssportclay wrote:I am afraid that the 1200 will also have to loose the dead plinth which was designed to withstand extremely loud ear bleeding environments.


Where did you find that information? Any link?


The 1200 plinth is excellent at eliminating feedback and is good enough for most people for home use. Unfortunately, the stock plinth holds the turntable back when compared against very expensive turntables. Better plinth design is one of the critical areas where the Technics 1200 MK2 needs further development. This is more of an opportunity than an actual problem.
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