conical versus ellipticals

by **registeredla** » 02 Oct 2009 17:18

1200y3 wrote:All I see on this forum is a bunch of people with worn out records that can only be played back with expensive MR styli. Doesn't seem worth much to me or the rest of the world.

If somebody wants to talk about historical phonograph systems, that is important. Most people don't seem to know anymore where vinyl originated. To hear a true mechanical phonograph is alot of electronic engineer's dreams. You don't know why? Cool!

I have a great collection of Jazz, Blues and so fourth from the early 50's forward. Most are like brand new. I strive to keep them that way and use cartridges that bring them close to live performances without wearing the albums out. Most albums do not even have a pop on them. I use Grado Statement Sonata Cartridges that track at 1.5 grams or less. With my system the experience is close to real. So for you to knock the forum on the quality of their albums, I think there should be a retraction from you. I am sure that there are many thousands of members whose collections are greater and more valuable than mine.

Yes it is true about the windup phongraphs. They are magical to listen to. I have 6000 records from the 1800's through the 1940's that are a joy to listen to.

1200y3, why are you so negative? This is a forum that learns from each other. Why do you have to bully all of the time? Stop knocking everyone and learn to enjoy the forum for what it is. And don't make a statement that generally hurts the membership unless you have proof that can not be contested..... :evil:

by **lini** » 02 Oct 2009 17:23

1200y3 wrote:Thanks, I wondered what the difference is between beryllium and boron, when boron was accepted to be the best.

Well, that's debatable, I'd say - boron is still a good bit tougher, but also slightly heavier and less damping than beryllium. In addition, speed of sound is also still a good bit higher with boron, whereas thermal and electric conductivity are much lower. Either can be considered as very tough and light, though - the rest might be a question of voicing most of all...

What would the characteristics of gold cantilever be?

Not desirable, I'd say. Gold isn't very tough physically, its specific speed of sound is comparatively low (not much higher than air) and it's bloody heavy. Hence a pure gold cantilever would rather be a waste of money - whereas gold might be more interesting as a thin coating for damping and chemical protection and, probably most of all, for additional bling!

Greetings from Munich!

Manfred / lini

by **1200y3** » 02 Oct 2009 17:33

Ther were some old stocks of the VN5 MR being sold on line for $500 each. The value when it was still being made was $85-$150 max.

Who's bullying? I get bullied more than anyone. Give me thre examples where I bullied someone. I just illustrated numerous ideas that are not free. All my mods are proveable.

by **registeredla** » 02 Oct 2009 17:43

1200y3 wrote: Who's bullying? I get bullied more than anyone. Give me thre examples where bullied. I just illustrated numerous ideas that are not free.

Read back on through your posts on this thread. There are more than 3 that indicate that people have no cue to what they are talking about.

I am not beating up on you, I can not say I dislike you. Just don't make statements about peoples opinions, equipment etc. without knowing the facts. At least we will admit when we have mistated or made a mistake. Is it below you to do the same?

by **1200y3** » 02 Oct 2009 17:47

Give me some examples. We want to see what a person with 6000 records and a $600+ cartridge considers to be a bully. It can teach us about being nice to people.

Maybe we can set some rules up on this forum (meant to be broken).

by **pivot** » 02 Oct 2009 17:56

registeredla wrote: So for you to knock the forum on the quality of their albums, I think there should be a retraction from you....

And don't make a statement that generally hurts the membership unless you have proof that can not be contested.....

Good luck with both of those. Rational discourse and reason are lost on this fellow. Careful and factual refutation just convince him he is a "Galileo", bucking the trends of those too stupid to understand the novel world view he has. ](*,)

Must say I am glad to see the gibberish bothers others not just me.

For me I could care less what 1200Y3 thinks of my album collection that he has never heard nor seen. Those of us who have been at this for a while know nonsense when we read it.

My concern is that there are a lot of newbies who wander in here for information and they might waste time and money because they are mislead by the drivel...or worse, give up on LP and analog all together because of the nonsense.

by **1200y3** » 02 Oct 2009 17:58

I hope you can guarantee my enjoyment of that SET 7 watt triode amp for $5000.

In regards to pivot's comment about newbies, I don't think anything I stated is of any interest or concern to or even relative to newbies. Most of my "philosophies" are the most generic and the oldest in the book.

Wasting money? My belief is in high end audio for free or cheap. You have not noticed.

The newbies waste their time and money. Are you trying to keep that one a secret?

by **lini** » 02 Oct 2009 17:58

Forgot the carbon: Yup, AT uses it on some cheapies, e.g. the AT91. Whereas Nagoaka has also used it on some better Nagatron and JewelTone models, e.g. the JT-555 (which was also offered as Tonar 555 and as Expert Super). That's quite a nice thingy, btw - I think Nagaoka called the shape Ultra-Ex, which looks Shibata/LinearContact-ish to me under the loupe, and it's a nude diamond with square shank.

Greetings from Munich!

Manfred / lini

by **pivot** » 02 Oct 2009 19:23

1200y3 wrote:Most of my "philosophies" are the most generic and the oldest in the book.

Book? What book? Whose book? Name the book?

You talk like your ideas are based the foundation of fundimental knowledge handed down by the masters. I have read a lot of the basics. Took a couple intro "electronics for hobbiests" courses in college. I have knocked together some kits - hope to solder up some more this winter. I truly don't think I am dense as a rock on this stuff, but 90% of what you write makes no sense at all to me.

A number of us have pestered you for REFFERENCES...so lets have some.

by **1200y3** » 02 Oct 2009 20:15

Pivot that is because I participate in the art of stylus design as opposed to reading about it. References to what?

Registeredla: Your claim is exactly what I am defending. Joe Grado rejected fine lines, and had the most advanced elliptical stylus.

by **registeredla** » 02 Oct 2009 20:22

1200y3 wrote:Give me some examples. We want to see what a person with 6000 records and a $600+ cartridge considers to be a bully. It can teach us about being nice to people.

Maybe we can set some rules up on this forum (meant to be broken).

What is wrong with you?

I am being as polite as I can be to you. Then you have to go and start knocking my collection of equipment in the next sentence. You are throwing all of this stuff around in this thread about you have this and you have that. When questioned you back track. Them you start talking about gear that is $5000.00 or more. Who is calling the kettle black? Then you go on tangents about your old book knowledge and on and on and on.

I think the first rule we should make, (since they are made to be broken) is to never respond to any of your posts from now on, if this is the way you are going to be. How would you like that? This is a friendly forum and you seem to bring out the worst by your unwillingness to back up your statements and your bashing of everyone. Get off your high horse or find another forum. Is that enough deffinition of bullying for you? Knowing you it will go right over your head and you will make it our fault for your attitude.

by **1200y3** » 02 Oct 2009 21:11

I did actually state that Joe Grado rejected fine lines and created the most advanced elliptical. That is in your defence. I've been bullied right off by others who said I know nothing about fine lines. It is a well known fact that fine lines were not always professionally accepted. So I Know nothing about fine lines, but someone else can blare right out and state that the elliptical is useless. So what. Joe Grado does.

People on this forum pry for information regarding other people's teachings and discoveries, without even uderstanding the relevance of the topic.

You don't have to be polite with me, I get your money anyhow. You seem glad to pay.

You haven't shown me examples of my bashing.

by **pivot** » 02 Oct 2009 22:27

1200y3 wrote:I did actually state that Joe Grado rejected fine lines and created the most advanced elliptical. .

Actually John Chaipis is reponsible for most of the modern Grado designs.
So if anybody "rejected" anything it would have been Mr. Chaipas.

There are those who (some are members on vinylengine) believe the "ellipsoid" stylus of the best Grados are rather closer in shape to a shibata then a common elliptical.

I don't know that one way or the other.

by **1200y3** » 02 Oct 2009 23:08

The parabolic elliptical or hyperbolic elliptical styli are simailar in concept, they are three dimensional shapes, similar to the ellipsoid. In other words they don't have a flat face. Internal pressure is uniform.

I would hope Joe's formulas are still followed, but it is not surprising if they change.