Ripping LPs straight to IPOD with Numark's TTi Turntable

by **salsaweb** » 21 Sep 2009 00:08

Was given the Numark TTi as a present
I attempted somewhat successfully ripped some of my LPs straight into my IPOD, then iTunes transferred into my PC as WAV files.
After the WAV file is in my PC I cleaned excess noise and enhanced it with SoundForge click and crackle remover and wave-hammer respectively.

I did however notice that mp3s I previously owned of the same music sound better that my wave rips.

My common sense led me to research a cartridge upgrade since a phonostage is not available in this direct LP to Ipod path.

I have read reviews on the Denon DL110 high output (aprox $150)
and the moving coil Denon DL103r. (about $350)
Based on the reviews, I prefer the DL103r, however it reads low output moving coil... ?????
Numark gives me absolutely ZERO details on specifications of this turntable.

So I have no numbers to match. I would like to make sure I don't buy something that will not help me.

Cart Reviews
http://forum.audiogon.com/cgi-bin/frr.pl?ranlg&1174501439&read&3&4&
http://forum.audiogon.com/cgi-bin/frr.pl?ranlg&1120429854&read&3&4

PLEASE HELP!

by **Steerpike_jhb** » 21 Sep 2009 00:25

I haven't listened to a newmark, but from the web pics I see it has a built in phono stage and a typical Moving Magnet cartridge. It will not have enough gain, nor the correct loading impedance for the DL103.

The DL110 is supposedly compadtible with MM amplification, but I suspect it will not give of its best in a newmark. The inbuilt phonostage is likely to be the weakest link. BUT according to the web pics, you can bypass this and use an external phono pre-amp (MM or MC). But if you are going to be buying such a cartridge as the 103, AND an MC pre-amp... it's wasted on that level of turntable.

Recording direct to MP3 and converting to wav is somewhat odd. Ideally, you want to record at the highest possible quality (wav), then process if necessary, then compress. Or retain in wav format or one of the non-lossy compression formats.

by **salsaweb** » 21 Sep 2009 01:38

Thank you Steerpike_jhb

The TTi does record right in as WAV. The 320k mp3 conversion I did for space saving in the Ipod.

So if I wanted to maintain this TTi setup the better option of the two would be the 110? Forgive the ignorance but what result would the 103 have?

Now if I were to go in different direction, what would be a 'value' setup starting with DL103R... example of MC phonostage and example of table? say all under $1000. By the way I have a Native Instruments "Audio Kontrol 1" that I used to do the same process with, bypassing the ipod. Does this take a role as a phonostage?

Thanks again.

by **java** » 21 Sep 2009 05:07

That should work well, as an audio interface to your computer. Why not go from your Numark Turntable direct to thi audio interface to your computer?

You might have to make an adapter plug, or maybe buy one at your local musician supply store.

Russell

by **salsaweb** » 21 Sep 2009 05:13

thanks Java,
I did use this and recorded WAVs directly into SoundForge.
Still does not resolve the quality of WAVe file.

Will this TTi work with a Denon DL103R connected to the Kontrol 1?
OR what phono cart to use?

by **jiiteepee** » 21 Sep 2009 17:25

salsaweb wrote:thanks Java,
I did use this and recorded WAVs directly into SoundForge.
Still does not resolve the quality of WAVe file.

Will this TTi work with a Denon DL103R connected to the Kontrol 1?
OR what phono cart to use?

Maybe you should link audio sample so we could hear what are you talking 'bout?

If there's a pre-amp + RIAA stage before Audio Kontrol then, yes ... just plug it in properly ... otherwise, (by the specs there's phono input available ) you'll need to have MM cartridge I quess (or use software based solution for RIAA EQ and extra gain if needed).

jiitee

by **Steerpike_jhb** » 21 Sep 2009 23:13

Using a 'standard' moving coil like the DL103 will result in very faint audio, and a lot of background noise - the 103's output is just too low.
A necessary condition for great cartridge performance is impedance matching, so there is more to keeping a cartridge happy than just cranking up the gain on the digital side, and applying software equalisation.

The Kontrol-1 will not give correct impedance matching for a moving coil, you'd need some kind of MC step-up transformer. I see the Kontrol-1 has MIC inputs, but these are not ideal for either MC or MM cartridges - again because of the impedance mismatch. It MAY have a dedicated MM input - but I do not see that on the www documentation.

The sonic effect of impedance mismatch is mostly distortion of the high frequencies - excessively bright treble, or dull, muted treble.

The Numark DOES have a suitable MM pre-amp, so you could go from the Numark (switched to line-level mode) into the Kontrol line inputs.

Sorry, I'm not really up to speed on commercial phono pre-amps, so I'll let others suggest some models. Alternatively, there are plenty of schematics on the www for really good phono pre-amps, if you are the soldering type.

by **salsaweb** » 23 Sep 2009 10:13

Steerpike_jhb, thanks a million for the info,
Here is what I found.
http://cgi.ebay.com/Moving-Coil-step-up-transformer-MC-phono-cinemag_W0QQitemZ230380380627QQcmdZViewItemQQptZLH_DefaultDomain_0?hash=item35a3bda1d3&_trksid=p3286.c0.m14
and
http://cgi.ebay.com/Moving-Coil-MC-Cartridge-Step-Up-Transformer-CineMag_W0QQitemZ280394544410QQcmdZViewItemQQptZLH_DefaultDomain_0?hash=item4148d1351a&_trksid=p3286.c0.m14
are available on Ebay. Which one will go best with the DL103R?

Assuming I have the DL-103R connected to the Cinemag then to my Audio Kontrol 1... is that a go? by the way I would also connect to a Pioneer VSX-9500S receiver before they reach my speakers.

Also, I could perhaps get my hands on a Technics 1200 MKII DJ turntable... (thinking this is a brute to you) will it improve my setup over the cheaply made Numark TTi?

by **Alec124c41** » 23 Sep 2009 14:38

Step-up transformers raise the output of an MC cartridge to a level that an MM pre-amp can handle. The transformer does not have the RIAA correction, nor will it put out a line level signal.
You need something like the Cambridge Azur 640P. There are others...

Cheers,
Alec

by **jiiteepee** » 23 Sep 2009 16:34

Steerpike_jhb wrote:...
A necessary condition for great cartridge performance is impedance matching, so there is more to keeping a cartridge happy than just cranking up the gain on the digital side, and applying software equalisation.

...

Thos are not necessarily an issue (example from (old) setup Technics SLQ2/205CMK3->E-MU0404USB directly through Hi-Z (1MΩ) line level inputs (software based RIAA EQ and rumble filtering).

Juha

by **Steerpike_jhb** » 23 Sep 2009 16:38

As Alec says,
(MC+transformer) = electrical equivalent to MM cart.

Many prefer the sound of transformers to solid-state MC preamps.
You still need an MM pre-amp though.

But some solid state MC preamps amplify right up to line level and do the RIAA equalisation, so you don't have to buy an MC preamp AND an MM preamp. This is model/manufacturer dependant though.

Both those transformers look nice, but I think if I had that sort of money to spend, I'd upgrade the turntable itself first. The $395 transformers offer greater versatilty - gain settings, etc. But is it worth the money? The cheaper one seems to be completely adequate.

Great turntable + average cartridge = better than great cartridge + budget TT.

The SL1200 is a very good performer - just be careful if buying a used one since DJs like them and DJs do not treat them well. It may have been overworked. (worn arm bearings, or worn main bearing. Check for ANY play in both those bearings - they can be replaced if required, but its a hassle)

by **Steerpike_jhb** » 23 Sep 2009 17:28

jiiteepee wrote:Thos are not necessarily an issue .... example from (old) setup Technics SLQ2/205CMK3->E-MU0404USB directly through Hi-Z (1MΩ) line level inputs (software based RIAA EQ and rumble filtering).

Here's a great & short page on why and how loading affects frequency response.
http://www.hagtech.com/loading.html

This is based on theory. One factor that is left out is the fact that cartridge manufacturers KNOW that amplifiers present 47k and 350pF (or whatever it is) to the cartridge, and they compensate for that in the linearity of the cartridge. If you omit the loading as Hagtech shows, you don't really get the curve shown, you get also the compensation added to it.

by **salsaweb** » 24 Sep 2009 02:58

Thanks again Steerpike_jhb

Ok so finally, I pickup a clean Technics TT, with the Denon DL103R, then I get the less expensive Cinemag. Is that almost a complete setup?

Do I need any other equipment?

by **Alec124c41** » 24 Sep 2009 05:08

Yes, you need a phono preamp.

Alec