Shellac - V Stylus Volume

[Ldg]

OK this just about fits in this section, I hope. How did volume adjustment work on ye olde wind up gramophones, where by choosing the stylus varied the volume ? What was it about that stylus that varied the volume, and how on earth did that work ?

[Axon]

There was no volume adjustment, and I'm pretty sure the volume characteristics that did exist revolved entirely around the horn instead of the needle.

[Ldg]

Thanks Axon. I think that's right there were different horns. But also there were different stylus types loud, medium, quiet, and perhaps xtra loud, xtra quiet. I wondered how that worked ?

[paul401]

Hello ld,

I posted on this very subject on Blue Angels thread 'Acoustical Sound from Shellac'.

Needles came in three types, Loud, Medium and Soft, The difference is in the thickness of the needle, with Loud being the thickest. These are not usually recommended, as they cause the most wear. A medium needle is approx. 1.5mm. diameter

The other method of volume control is to damp the sound by placing a piece of cloth into the horn, hence the expression, "put a sock in it" Honest!

To give you some idea of relative volume in my room (12x13 feet) a soft-tone needle is quite adequate, and I still occasionally 'put a sock in it' even with this!

Paul

[W8AAZ]

I think from what I have seen, is that the needles varied in thickness and length, if steel. Then thorn needles had a totally different characteristic than a rigid steel needle. As you might imagine, they were presumably a bit more flexible material and perhaps dampened the transferred acoustics a bit more than the comparitively inflexible metal. The stylus and armature assembly formed a lever with one end the needle in the groove, and the other end connected to the center of the metal or mica diaphram. So I suppose for a given amount of needle movement from the groove, the location of the pivot determined mechanical advantage of the assembly, perhaps that is why longer or shorter needles could give relatively different volumes. The loudest does not always sound the best, in the case of the mechanically reproduced music. There were a multitude of different styli and varied reproducers made at the time, and therefore tweekers of the pre electric era were not constrained by narrow limits, either. Certainly there was debate of the qualities of different discs, and players, and interchangeable parts. This or that combination gives better tone, or clarity, or volume, etc. Doubt that they had the modern tweekers vast vocabulary of superlatives to call on, though.

[daveobieone]

My 1912 Victrola console has doors in front of the horn. Open or close them to adjust the volume. Very simple.

I also have different volume needles. As was said earlier, the softer ones are thinner. I think they had some that were made from cactus needles (or something like that) which were quite a bit softer...but I've not used them.

This Victrola still works fine BTW. Recently had the "sound box" (the cartridge) rebuilt.

Oh, and you should also know that the steel needles should be changed between every single playing! There's a very good reason for this. The needle (I won't call it a stylus) actually wears to conform to the shape of the groove walls during the play. Since no two records of that era are likely to have the same exact shape of groove, the worn needle will turn into a chisel on the next record if you don't change it!

Dave O.

[Ldg]

Thanks for replies. Love the 'put a sock in it' and other anecdotes !

Understand that the gauge of the stylus or point 'thickness' was a factor, but I still don't understand why that varied the volume, any clue? Thx

[Axon]

I am happily corrected, it seems

[paul401]

Hi,
Axon wrote;

I am happily corrected, it seems

not at all, the size of the horn does matter! (can't believe I just wrote that on a VE thread! ) It will indeed affect the overall volume of the player. Also the size of the horn mouth (opening) affects the bass response, a larger opening will give better lower frequency output.

ld wrote;

Understand that the gauge of the stylus or point 'thickness' was a factor, but I still don't understand why that varied the volume, any clue?

The needle is held in place by a small screw, which holds it firm in the stylus bar, the other end of the stylus bar is attached to the centre of the diaphragm in the soundbox. As all the energy is transferred mechanically I can only think that the thicker needles vibrate more and/or transfer more energy to the diaphragm

Paul.