Jelco Tone Arms

[WmAx]

I have a tone arm from a regarded Rotel turntable, and this arm appears to be a variant of the Jelco SA-250ST. I'm assuming this must be an OEMed arm from Jelco. It only has a few cosmetic customized differences so far as I can determine. Well, this arm is very nice - and if the SA-250ST is very similar - then it is a great am. Very low resonance design, excellent bearings, great over-all design. The only single fault I can determine is the standard spring loaded mechanical anti-skate system: a potential source of resonance. I did stuff in a piece of evlon foam in the arm tube to reduce resonance just a bit more.

-Chris

[Beobloke]

For some reason I keep coming back to the Jelco SA-370H arm. It looks like it will meet most needs but I am waiting to see who else uses this arm and what their experiences are. I have no idea what phono cartridges can be used with this arm. Plus, as has been stated previoiusly, there is an effective mass problem that must be taken care of with a lighter tone arm head.

I have several Jelco SA-370 arms, as they were standard fitment on London Acoustical Developments' semi professional turntables from about 20 years ago, and I have rather more of these than is good for me. I also have the very SA-750D reviewed by Hi-Fi World, as I reviewed it and liked it so much I bought it!

The SA-370 is basically an older version of the SA-750D and the 750 brings the design up to date with better bearings, better wiring and a nicer finish. Comparing the two, I would say the SA-750D definitely has a notable advantage over a standard SA-370 as it has a more focused soundstage, better dynamics and a 'cleaner' top end. That said, I do have an SA-370 that has been rebuilt and re-wired by Johnnie at Audio Origami - this improves on the standard SA-370 considerably but I have yet to do a direct comparison with the SA-750D!

Cartridge-wise I generally usa a Goldring 2500 in the SA-750D and have also had excellent results from an Audio Technica AT-OC9MLII MC. A whole range of things move around the several SA-370s I have, including an Audio Technica AT110E (good), an Ortofon 2M Red (also good) an AT-440MLa (bad) and a Grado Black (fitted it a couple of weeks ago and haven't listened yet).

[fantasia]

BOY,

and i thought that the effective mass of 9 odd grams for my Rega rb-300 limited my choice of cartridges i could not play any of them in an 18Gram Jelco!!!!!!!

It would be a struggle!!!! also if you are using NON MAGNETIC Stainless STEEL alan headed bolts they will add a gram or two!!!!! you could always go GA GA and use Nylon BOLTS and Nuts weigh next to nothing!!!!!!!

Fantasia

[dankaz97]

HI guys,
My 1st post!! Ok, been trying to find a suitable armboard for my Jelco SA750D or possible DIY. Been checking out Micro Seiki armboard e.g. AX-1, AX-1G but can't seems to find the dimensions. Any of you gents can assist?
Much appreciated! Cheers

[JaS]

HI guys,
My 1st post!! Ok, been trying to find a suitable armboard for my Jelco SA750D or possible DIY. Been checking out Micro Seiki armboard e.g. AX-1, AX-1G but can't seems to find the dimensions. Any of you gents can assist?
Much appreciated! Cheers

Hi,
The mounting for the SA-750D is similar to Linn but the stated mounting distance is 214mm. Mounting the arm on a Linn arm board (30mm hole at 211mm) and using a Baerwald protractor should give better alignment (lower tracing distortion) while still leaving the cartridge central in the slots. Possibly worth a try?

The Micro Seiki tonearm base list shows the hole size for some AX arm boards but the list is pre-Linn arms (!) so some cross referencing with the tonearm database may be needed?
http://www.vinylengine.com/library/micr ... list.shtml

Regards,
JaS

[rynnox]

Hi,

Beoblok I just wonder if not the goldring 2500 is to high compliance, to soft, to Jelco SA-750. I have the same arm my self and try to find out what cart to spend my money

[rbwinterlink]

Good evening all and thank each of you for the time it took to respond to my call for help and to offer credible suggestions.

: I very much appeciate your suggestions and input. The Excalibur Tone Arm is indeed old school. It does not offer the quality of the Excalibur that was part of the Rock 2 turntable. My current tone arm has no lift, no VTA, no anti-skating and it's a high mass arm. Not withstanding it's a bear to install a cartridge in. That is why I was most interested in another arm. Thank you for the information regarding arm mass. My Excalibur is a single piece tone arm so I can't unload any of its mass. I'm stuck as it were. The early Decca cartridges worked well in this arm.

I do plan to listen to as many cartridges as I can and have listend to a few already but can't afford the prices ($1000 up). Ms. Maria Schneider is a fantastic orchestrator and band leader who writes almost perfect charts. I love what she produces not the woman (smile).

: Thanks for your great input. It's great to learn about the Jelco SA-370 tone arms. I was not aware they were of a different earlier era. I thought they were brand new designs that are being offered the public. It appears that you have much experience with these tone arms and I appreciate you sharing what you know about them. It would also appear from what you say that the SA-750 might be older technology however you seem to like the arm.

What happens when you use the SA-370 arms with various cartridges? What do you mean "A whole range of things move aroiund the several SA-370s you have"? At any rate I appreciate your input.

Bob W.

[rbwinterlink]

My friend ,

What can I say but thank you for this very sensitive and needed input. I am more than pleased with how you have given me a different slant on how I should look at my present audio plight. I am impressed with your knowledg of audio in general and tone arm/cartridg compatability specifically. One of the reasons I love coming to this forum is the amount of experience of each and every member. And I can honestly say that every suggestion and all input has been worthwhile and useful. I have never gotten bad information at any time and this pleases me greatly.

I want to thank you and everyone who contributed to extending my knowledge base in the area of tone arms. I know much more now and can make some definite decisions based on what i've learned here. What a swell group of people.

Bob W.

[Beobloke]

What happens when you use the SA-370 arms with various cartridges? What do you mean "A whole range of things move aroiund the several SA-370s you have"? At any rate I appreciate your input.

Bob W.

As I have four decks that have the SA-370 arms on, I have done quite a bit of cartridge-swapping over the years. All I meant was that the SA-370 has a quite a neutral character and seems to work well with a wide range of cartridges.

[rbwinterlink]

BeoBloke good morning and thank you for getting back to me with your response.

Tell me what medium to high end ($500 to $1000) cartridges have used with success? Also can you share if these Jelco arms work better with cartridges in the 4 to 8 grams or higher weights? Do you have to cut down on the overall weight (mass) of the Jelco SA 370H and SA-250 and if so what head shells are you using and where are they purchased?

Finally, how does the "Oil Damping" help the Jelco do a better job with various cartridges than if it did not have this feature? Does the SA-250 also possess this feature? Which arm would you use most often and why? The reason I don't ask about the SA-250ST is because I must have an arm with a removable head shell.

By the way does the head shells permit some minor Horizontal Aziuuth Adjustment if needed? This would assure that the cartridge stylus is aligned properly.

Thank you again for you sharing this great information with me and anyone else who might be interested.

Bob W.

[Beobloke]

The only higher end cartidge I have used in the Jelcos is my Audio Technica AT-OC9MLII which worked very well in the SA-750D. It was less certain of itself in the SA-370 but then this went away for a service and wiring upgrade and apparently the bearings were in a bit of a state! I have not tried it again since it came back.

With regard to headshells, I use the standard item that came with the SA-750D and generally use Vestax items with the SA-370s - these are good performers at a reasonable price and also come in some nice colours, namely gold, silver, black, blue and green. (Most of the LAD decks are blue, so the whole effect looks good!). They are also virtually identical to the items that LAD headshells that came fitted on the arms originally. It seems that all the cartridges I have used on it are in the 7-8g weight range so i have not needed to experiment with different headshells or balance weights.

With regards to the oil damping, I personally do not use it. I have experimented with it and found on each occasion that it made things rather slow and lifeless sounding.

It's a shame you have discounted the SA-250ST as I personally think this is a better arm than the SA-250. The SA-250ST sounds cleaner and more precise, and vibrational measurement shows it to be a much better damped design then the SA-250.

[rbwinterlink]

Gentleman thank you both for responding. Again I am building my own plinth and will be using the massive bearing and platter from my old Cranfield Rock Turntable. The Excalibur arm is the first arm offered in a commercially available Rock turntable, so it's old school with minimum amenities. It is the most basic tone arm you could buy back then (1982). That is the reason I am looking for an interim arm until I can afford one of the great arms (SME, etc). I am going inexpensive right now due to my budget.

Dave, I note you use the inexpensive SA-250 ST and appear to have great success with matching it to several great cartridges to include the Shelter 501. My only concern is that it does not have a removable head and I have problems installing cartridges in this type of setup. I have longed for the opportunity to purchase an arm were I can remove the head to replace the cartridge. However it looks as if you have done a great job mixing and matching and that's wonderful.

BeoBloke, I think it negates the price of the SA-370H if you had to have all that extra work done, rewiring and other things. Actually I am looking for an arm that I can use right out of the box that will mate with a good cartridge and play well so that I don't cringe. I thought the Jelco SA-370H or the SA 250 would do the trick but .........

Bob W.

[dankaz97]

HI guys,
My 1st post!! Ok, been trying to find a suitable armboard for my Jelco SA750D or possible DIY. Been checking out Micro Seiki armboard e.g. AX-1, AX-1G but can't seems to find the dimensions. Any of you gents can assist?
Much appreciated! Cheers

Hi,
The mounting for the SA-750D is similar to Linn but the stated mounting distance is 214mm. Mounting the arm on a Linn arm board (30mm hole at 211mm) and using a Baerwald protractor should give better alignment (lower tracing distortion) while still leaving the cartridge central in the slots. Possibly worth a try?

The Micro Seiki tonearm base list shows the hole size for some AX arm boards but the list is pre-Linn arms (!) so some cross referencing with the tonearm database may be needed?
http://www.vinylengine.com/library/micr ... list.shtml

Regards,
JaS

Thanks JaS! As I'm using a Roksan, there's no way I can mount a 2nd arm, l'll probably DIY the armboard as well as the base support. A kind of project to keep myself (brain) busy. Will be mounting either AT 33PTG or DL 103R. Don't know how it'll sound??? Well, back to the drawing board. Cheers

[rbwinterlink]

Again I want to thank everyone for your great input. If I may, how would a body be able to discern which (MM or MC) works best with a particular tone arm? I now have a very, very basic understanding of the importants of a tone arms mass plus the mass of the head shell. I think that the cartridge's mass also plays into the equation.

However, there must be a mathamatical formula for figuring all of this out. I also believe there is more basic way to make these conclusions that the common man (me) can understand without being a rocket scientist. I would be very pleased to get some help with this problem. I am sure I am the only one who still does not understand how to figure this all out.

I have started work on my plinth. Because I want to use the excellent bearing and platter from the Cranfield Rock turntable I am going to have to have the metal that holds the bearing cut to the size I want and need. So the old Elite Rock Turntable won't go to waste. Also I won't be using the springs because I always thought they made the turntable less focused. So, I will soon have to determine which tone arm to purchase and then I've got to get down to the business of finding a cartridge I can live with. Hence, why I am looking for some help with cartridtge/tone arm matching. Thanks all.

Bob W.