Aha, I see some of you picked this old thread up again!
mosin wrote: You said, "In terms of rythm, slam, plasticity and three-dimensionality the EMT 930 remained king. The Raven had no chance. In terms of delicacy, air and detail the Raven won the battle, we all agreed on that. You see? It all depends what your priorities are, but be aware of the tradeoffs."
Why do you think this result happened? Why do you believe there must be tradeoffs?
Mosin, I do not have a full explanation of the “why”, but I’m convinced the combination of stronger motors (compared to belt driven tts) and lack of elasticity (no belt) plays a role here. I’m also convinced that you have drawn your own conclusions, as your decision to build idler-wheel turntables must be based on a thorough technical analysis of the issues involved here. I would look forward to read them here.
Regarding the "tradeoff", in my view one can indeed push in both directions: push for more detail and finesse with idlers, as I did with my EMT, or push for more punch and dynamics with belts, as did Thomas Woschnik with the Raven. However, pushing the envelope is one thing, reaching the ultimate on both fronts is another. One needs to settle with a compromise, a top-quality compromise, but still a compromise.
Salut b_gasik, nice to see that we had somewhat different perceptions from the battle, at least in some respect. I hope you allow me to stick to my own conclusions. And hey, it is important that both of us remain satisfied with what we have.
The Raven remains a top belt drive, no doubt.. but, in all honesty, let me add the following and share it with our friends here: I had the Raven on my very short list for a second turntable and was about to order one! I had listened to the Raven once at your place, then again at the manufacturer’s house in Germany, but I wanted to hear it one more time before ordering it. This is why I came up with the idea of doing this comparison under as strict conditions as possible, and I’m glad you accepted the challenge. But, honestly, after the comparison I simply lost interest in the Raven. Why? Because the differences in terms of detail and finesse were not as big as I had expected. The only other turntable that would have made it to the top of my shortlist for a turntable with detail and finesse would have been your big Thorens with the Schroeder arm – but there we didn’t compare. Apples and oranges, Yin and Yang: in my view, if one doesn't seek both then there is no need for two turntables (unless one is a collector, which I'm not).
In any case, I’m glad we did this comparison, it was great fun and I also realise not many of us have a chance to experience something special like this.