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Garrard 301 Grease Bearing - What type of grease?

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Garrard 301 Grease Bearing - What type of grease?

Postby turhandjemal » 23 Nov 2004 14:12

Hi,

I have just acquired a hammerite grease bearing 301 which need a little restoration. The bearing was completely dry so I need to find out what type of grease is best. Does anyone know?

I'm sure most types of auto grease will be OK, but would really appreciate it if anyone has any specific suggestions.

Thanks,

Turhan
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Postby ebreckpo » 23 Nov 2004 19:09

I am using a Lithium based grease on my 301 grease bearing as mine was dry too. (multi grease EP2 by Sunoco)) what they use for greasing cars... I am still experimenting and I am looking for a "lighter grease" as the bearing is in first class condition. I have never seen the original grease apart from some sludge. As the bearing assy is the same as the early 401 oil bearing I am considering converting the bearing to an oil bearing by using a suitable nylon tap instead of the grease nipple. As the main bearing will have less friction this will put less stress to the rest of the deck. I noticed also that the motor is dissipating a lot of heat although I cleaned and reoiled the motor bearings the top bearing has no play but the bottom bearing has some play which could be the cause of the overheating.
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Postby turhandjemal » 23 Nov 2004 19:52

Thanks very much for the advice - I will look out for that grease and give it a try. My bearing has a fair amount of play and I'm wondering if the grease will stop this. My gut feel though is that it is worn and will need new sleeves. I'm going to check out some local engineering shops to see how much it will cost to fit new sleeves. It is interesting that the Loricraft site states that these bearings rarely wear out - I'm currently working on 5 Garrard 301/401's and, to my untrained touch, all have significant wear in the main support sleeves. A friend of mine had his 401 checked by Loricraft and they said it was fine - upon inspection this had the same amount of play in the main bearing. Maybe they are meant to have play, but I am sure that this must degrade sound as it allows the idler wheel to induce vibration in the platter. What do you think?

As for your idea about switching from oil to grease, it seems like an interesting approach. My only concern would be with the clearances in the bearings. Are you sure the sleeves are the same? My guess is that the grease bearing sleeves provide a greater clearance than the oil bearing sleeves which allows the thicker grease to penetrate between the sleeve and the shaft. For this reason, if you apply oil to the top of a grease bearing shaft it may just run down to the bottom. However, you are probably thinking of filling the entire bearing chamber with oil which would be fine. It will be interesting if you notice more play when using oil rather than grease.

Please realise this is just my quess work as I am new to Garrard turntables and my thoughts are just based on the few I have seen so far. It is therefore nice to discuss this topic with someone as it seems to me there is very little advice available on these turntables.

I have not yet dismantled a motor - is this easy? Do I need to bear anything in mind when doing this. Also, are the oil reservoirs obvious? I have heard they are felt pads that need to be soaked in oil. What oil do you use for this?

You could also try using a Variac to reduce the voltage down to 180v. This should reduce heat in the motor and also reduce vibration which will in turn improve sound quality. I have not tried this yet but intend to soon. Many people recommend it though.

Cheers, Turhan
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Postby docjowe » 23 Nov 2004 21:51

hello turhandjemal.

go and have a look at Trickytree's post on :
http://www.vinylengine.com/phpBB2/viewt ... c&start=10
about motor oiling
he's done it without much discarding ; I didnt try it yet ;
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Postby ebreckpo » 24 Nov 2004 15:51

If someone wants to see the internals of a 301 motor if have taken some photographs of it. Please take note i am not a webmaster so it is quick and dirty. Tools needed 1/4" spanner. Hope it will be of some help:

http://www.ebsystems.1cis.com/homepage.htm
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Postby turhandjemal » 26 Nov 2004 13:37

Thanks to everyone for all the advice and photos. Very helpful and have given me confidence to strip and rebuild my 301.

I have also noticed that the support bearings are very work and have a lot of play. Does anyone know of an engineering company that provides a sensibly priced re-sleeving service?
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Postby Audie » 30 Dec 2004 07:42

Re. grease for garrard 301 grease bearing.

A magazine restoration article suggested that a vehicle chassis grease such as Castrol CL would be suitable.

I used an expensive grease supplied in 35gram jars that a VCR repairman supplied me.It,s called "Lager Fett -5143". It is a bearing grease for roller bearings,friction bearings and toothed wheels.
It looks very much like the original Garrard grease.
After cleaning,I coated the bearing surfaces with teflon(PTFE) additive before greasing and assembly.
The result was a quiet and very free runng platter.

An alternative grease I would use if it became necessary is "Slick 50 One Grease. It's a multipurpose grease fortified with PTFE,ideal for automotive wheel bearing and chassis lubrication.

Happy New Year !

Audie.
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Postby stevetw » 19 Jan 2005 21:41

This is a very good grease it has a low melt point and contains teflon less friction as most grease needs to be warmed up before it starts to thin I:e ten minutes http://www.weldtite.co.uk/detail.asp?Pr ... 79&navID=2
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Grease for grease bearing Garrard 301

Postby josephazannieri » 07 Dec 2008 06:35

The bearing in my 301 is a little loose. I used automotive wheel bearing grease ( Valvoline, but any good quality will do) and it seemed to work just great. Took up some of the excess clearance. Remember to pack some grease under the brass screw down grease injector on the side of the bearing. That way you can lube it periodically by screwing the injector down a little bit. Good Luck!
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Postby LPfan » 07 Dec 2008 10:02

Hallo Everybody,

Ebreckpo, thank you for posting the photos of the innards of the 301 motor. I could confirm that the motor of the 4HF I am restoring is identical. The only difference is that this motor is w/o the eddy current brake. It is easy to oil the motor. One does not need to disconnect the wiring.

Turhandjemal, regarding the variac method, there is a school of thought that this affects the torque as this is an induction motor, not a synchronous type. I have no personal experience about this and would like to see your feedback if you run any tests with/without variac.

Best Regards,

Lpfan
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use of a variac

Postby josephazannieri » 08 Dec 2008 20:59

Turhand, I have an old grease bearing job like yours, except it's really worn. Mine is rigged for USA, 120 volts 60 Hz. Yours is probably 240 volt and 50 Hz. I used a variac for a while. The speed is set by the line frequency, but when you reduce the line voltage (below 90 v for me) you begin to lose power from the motor and the speed becomes erratic and begins to slow down. My experience was that reducing the voltage did reduce the noise and vibration from the motor somewhat, making a quieter playback (less apparent rumble). I had to be careful, because there was kind of a "null point" where the turntable would quiet down, but it would also start to slow down. Remember, on these things the eddy brake is on all the time. What you do is reduce the voltage while you are playing a record with blank grooves on it (no sound or really quiet runout grooves). Turn the bass up before you adjust voltage, and you will hear the decrease in apparent rumble. This will tell you how far is far enough. If it slows down, it's too much. For me the use of the variac was not a big deal, but I had a fairly heavy plinth. The change was subtle. For others, it might be significant. These old Garrard 301's have huge, powerful motors that do vibrate some. That's why you want a massive plinth, to eat the vibrations. Or you can use a variac. Good Luck again.
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