Record cleaning machines ?

how clean is your house
Ripvanvinyl
member
member
Canada
Posts: 106
Joined: 01 Nov 2019 23:08

Re: Record cleaning machines ?

Post by Ripvanvinyl » 08 Dec 2019 20:49

Interesting to hear others' experience.
Metalshock - your major con with the Squeaky Clean (having to take down the setup between uses) is actually a pro for me!
My wife and I have recently downsized and I have no interest in having an RCM in my living room - especially with a noisy shop vac. When I need to clean records I set up in the basement workshop - it only takes a couple of minutes as the vac lives there anyway.

Although I agree it is more efficient to clean batches of records at once, I don't mind cleaning one or two. Perhaps this is just a continuation of my love of the tactile experience and ritual of vinyl!

Bluesnote
member
member
Australia
Posts: 229
Joined: 27 Aug 2019 05:12

Re: Record cleaning machines ?

Post by Bluesnote » 11 Dec 2019 06:34

Bluesnote wrote:
23 Oct 2019 07:02
redavalanche wrote:
23 Oct 2019 06:45
I made my own rotisserie for ultra sonic with filter. So this is the rabbit hole I guess for people who can spend 200-ish but not 2000.
Good luck.
Looking into this now, do you have pics of your rotisserie? I've watched several DIY videos so have a good idea of how I will approach my project. I'm coming across a few LPs now that still haven't responded to a good wet clean and vacuum.

Oddly it's the lead in and first 10 - 20mm that really have the crackles - just played side 1 of Santana Caravanserai, if you are familiar with it? It starts with the sound of crickets/cicadas chirping - well my copy sounds like breakfast cereal without the milk :mrgreen:

Let us know your results with ultrasonic please (before I invest more of my hard earned $$) :)

Chris
Well, you'll never never know. . .

I bit the bullet and have now built up an ultrasonic set-up. I've done my research but had to work to a limited budget, so at least for the time being it's the cheap Chinese 40khz machine - if I see (hear) an improvement I may invest further.

Whilst waiting for the US machine to arrive I've built a simple rotisserie.
I've mounted the 12v geared drive motor into an electronics project box. . .
IMG_0049.jpg
(79.14 KiB) Downloaded 160 times
I'm using a 6.3mm aluminium rod connecting to the motor drive via 6.5 - 6.5mm connector.
IMG_0048.jpg
(49.47 KiB) Downloaded 156 times
Fitted a switch and 12v power socket
IMG_0047.jpg
(27.75 KiB) Downloaded 154 times
Label protectors with a collar and thumb screw to secure album.
IMG_0059.jpg
(80 KiB) Downloaded 154 times
Reached image limit - to be continued. . .

Chris
Attachments
IMG_0047.jpg
(27.75 KiB) Downloaded 155 times
Last edited by Bluesnote on 11 Dec 2019 06:44, edited 1 time in total.

Bluesnote
member
member
Australia
Posts: 229
Joined: 27 Aug 2019 05:12

Re: Record cleaning machines ?

Post by Bluesnote » 11 Dec 2019 06:43

^Part 2

. . .back again :)

Rotisserie mounted to tank, aluminium channel with thumb screws
Assembled2.jpg
(94.45 KiB) Downloaded 155 times
Once the album has had it's time in the tank, I release the rod and slip it onto a hockey puck with a hole drilled. Release the collar thumb screw and place the disc on the vacuum.
Rod on stand.jpg
(110.66 KiB) Downloaded 154 times
Album on vacuum.jpg
(115.43 KiB) Downloaded 158 times
So, it's all working as intended, I'll make a few small adjustments, mix a US solution and do a few test records. . .

Chris

Bluesnote
member
member
Australia
Posts: 229
Joined: 27 Aug 2019 05:12

Re: Record cleaning machines ?

Post by Bluesnote » 17 Dec 2019 06:04

^So further to the above. . .

I've now cleaned a few records using the ultrasonic cleaner, a few observations:-

All of my test albums so far had been wet cleaned, vacuumed and test played prior to using the ultrasonic. They were set aside as they were not up to scratch (no pun) :wink:

The first had a visible scratch running across the grooves, obviously this gave a small pop on each revolution. After using the ultrasonic the pop was more present, I guess with previous wet cleaning the scratch was being filled with the dirt lifted from the grooves, the ultrasonic clean has removed this? The side played through and aside from the regular expected pop, sounded good with no perceivable surface noise. I will have to seek out a better copy though. . .

The second album has been transformed, (*cliche warning!!) no surface noise and a clarity previous plays lacked, it has lifted the grading a good few notches - this had previously been wet cleaned, rinsed, spin cleaned and vacuumed.

Early days, but I'm more impressed than I was expecting. A damaged record will remain damaged of course, a decent but dirty record can be really improved well beyond my efforts with wet cleaning and vacuum.

At the moment I'm cleaning one record at a time, 35 degrees for 20 minutes - the motor speed I feel is too fast at 1.5rpm so I've ordered a .6rpm motor. Once I have it, I'll try 2 at a time spaced about 40mm apart.

Chris
Last edited by Bluesnote on 17 Dec 2019 06:42, edited 1 time in total.

Tombo62
member
member
United States of America
Posts: 73
Joined: 21 Apr 2019 01:26

Re: Record cleaning machines ?

Post by Tombo62 » 17 Dec 2019 06:37

Hi Chris, Thank you so much for sharing your design and your early observations on effectiveness. Been considering a US machine myself, but still have many unanswered questions in my mind. Please keep us updated on your results, Would love to hear more. Best Regards, Tom

Bluesnote
member
member
Australia
Posts: 229
Joined: 27 Aug 2019 05:12

Re: Record cleaning machines ?

Post by Bluesnote » 17 Dec 2019 07:15

Tombo62 wrote:
17 Dec 2019 06:37
Hi Chris, Thank you so much for sharing your design and your early observations on effectiveness. Been considering a US machine myself, but still have many unanswered questions in my mind. Please keep us updated on your results, Would love to hear more. Best Regards, Tom
Hi Tom,
I'll pass on what I can, this is very much a learning curve for me. I've yet to fine tune my cleaning mix and will experiment with temp and time. I've come a long way in the last three months, and certainly have become more critical of outcomes, but at the same time not losing sight of the objective - listening to the music! :D

I'm ok with the mechanics of the process but will lean on Vince1 for advice on solutions etc. Playing around today I found that I can release the rod from the motor and lift the whole thing straight into the Spin Clean for a rinse. From there onto the vacuum which pretty well dries the record ready to play. This means I can load the next disc within minutes :)
Spin rinse.jpg
(61.13 KiB) Downloaded 121 times
Fire away with any questions info/measurements etc. I don't believe that you can get away with one system, the Spin Clean had/has it's place, likewise the vacuum and now US - they can all work individually or together in conjunction. :wink:

Chris

Tombo62
member
member
United States of America
Posts: 73
Joined: 21 Apr 2019 01:26

Re: Record cleaning machines ?

Post by Tombo62 » 17 Dec 2019 23:04

Hi Chris, I have become more convinced lately, from others peoples testimonies, that ultra sonic cleaning offers advantages over the more conventional hand wash, rinse and vac method that I now use with a VPI machine. The US machine seems to provide a combination of very high velocity fluid movement at the surface of the record, longer soak time and a higher temperature of the cleaning fluid, all of which, I assume, contribute to the improved results people report. Most US users have reported an increase in transparency (as if hearing a truer replication of the master tape) and an overall reduction in surface noise that is highly dependent on the condition of the record being cleaned (just as you have). Most of my unanswered questions would be concerning which US machine to acquire, such as what is the optimal generator wattage and frequency for vinyl records, how is the fluid temp controlled, how quick will it heat up, necessitating a cool down period, and overall durability and longevity.

Your three step system, US-Rinse-Vac, seems to be an optimal approach to achieving the best result and your detailing of the result on different records, is quite interesting. I would just hope that you keep us apprised on any future developments when playing around with time, temp, rpm's, filtration or fluid changing, etc. The more we share the more we learn. Kindest Regards, Tom

Bluesnote
member
member
Australia
Posts: 229
Joined: 27 Aug 2019 05:12

Re: Record cleaning machines ?

Post by Bluesnote » 18 Dec 2019 03:15

Tombo62 wrote:
17 Dec 2019 23:04
Hi Chris, I have become more convinced lately, <snip>. . .

</snip>
Your three step system, US-Rinse-Vac, seems to be an optimal approach to achieving the best result and your detailing of the result on different records, is quite interesting. I would just hope that you keep us apprised on any future developments when playing around with time, temp, rpm's, filtration or fluid changing, etc. The more we share the more we learn. Kindest Regards, Tom
Hi Tom,
I can now confirm I am a convert to US =D>

There will be more experimentation but I can absolutely confirm an audible improvement on records previously deemed acceptable. Directly playing before and after US has shown a marked difference - I'll leave it to others to wax lyrical in more audiophile terms but simply put the record just sounds so much better, I have a fairly basic sound system and could have invested further there with possibly a lesser result?

My whole set-up had to be budget orientated, the entire cleaning investment now sits around AUD$250.00 and can be packed away into a cupboard under our kitchen servery. I set-up the US in a bathroom with door closed as it is noisy. Commercial units may have dealt with the noise issue but you'll pay big $$$ for that convenience for much the same result.
Record cleaning on a budget.jpg
(93.66 KiB) Downloaded 106 times
Some good reading here, discussions on temp/time/chemistry/filtration/machine brands, etc.
https://www.diyaudio.com/forums/analogu ... eaner.html
https://audiokarma.org/forums/index.php ... ds.689430/
https://positive-feedback.com/audio-dis ... aning-lps/

When I'm more settled with my results I'll outline my chemistry etc. The .6rpm motor arrived today so I expect there will be changes to time in the bath.

Chris

Bluesnote
member
member
Australia
Posts: 229
Joined: 27 Aug 2019 05:12

Re: Record cleaning machines ?

Post by Bluesnote » 01 Feb 2020 07:45

Bluesnote wrote:
18 Dec 2019 03:15

When I'm more settled with my results I'll outline my chemistry etc. The .6rpm motor arrived today so I expect there will be changes to time in the bath.

Chris
Just a small update, as mentioned I felt the original drive installed on my rotisserie was too fast. I have since installed the .6rpm drive and after several records now allow 30 minutes with really excellent results

In another thread vince1 was able to confirm that a substitute quat I planned to use was suitable. RF-12 is a hospital grade sanitiser concentrate, 12ml into a 6ltr tank being an ideal dilution. To this I add 4 drops of non-ionic detergent, and 10ml of Ilford Infotol as a wetting agent. (The Agar RF-12 is readily available in Australia at AUD$18.00 for 5ltr.). Oh, and of course Demineralised water.

I use the Isopropyl Alcohol in a pre-ultrasonic wet cleaning solution on particularly dirty records (helps with fingerpints and grease).
Ultrasonic chemicals.jpg
(120.35 KiB) Downloaded 44 times


A combination of slowing the rpm, slightly longer time in the tank and this chemistry is giving much improved and repeatable results. Very much a home set-up as I only clean as required, I can have a record cleaned ready for playing in the time it takes to play 2 sides - though a 30 minute break gives the US tank time to recover.

No filtration at this stage but I'm finding I can clean around 30 - 50 records before changing solution, total cost being around AUD10.00

Chris

Pscm
member
member
Posts: 199
Joined: 14 Aug 2015 00:40
Location: Central Maine

Re: Record cleaning machines ?

Post by Pscm » 01 Feb 2020 23:12

I agree with a previous post that pure vinyl was a game changer. Not cheap but it works IMO.