Cartridge recommendation for DP-45F TT?

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couldbfishin
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Cartridge recommendation for DP-45F TT?

Post by couldbfishin » 03 May 2017 20:19

I bought a new Denon DP-45F in about 1985 with a DL-300 MC cartridge and have used it without a problem for the past 32 years. I have just started noticing my albums don't sound as great as they used to. Considering buying a new cartridge. I have read the threads on the Denon DL-160, 110 and most recently the 103 and they all sound encouraging. Searched eBay for the discontinued DL-160 and only found rebuilt or used, no NOS. I prefer a new cartridge.

I will use it with either a Marantz 2275 or 2325 restored receiver with built in phono preamps, or a McIntosh C20 preamp, and two MC-40 mono-blocks. I prefer R&B, and vintage rock and drive JBL L150A or AR2ax speakers.

My ideal price would be under $300, but could stretch that a little for noticeably better performance.

I have never changed out a tone arm, and would prefer to buy a cartridge that mounts easily to my stock Denon DP-45F TT.

Thanks in advance for your recommendations.

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Re: Cartridge recommendation for DP-45F TT?

Post by Freddymac1 » 04 May 2017 16:11

You have been listening to a pretty good cartridge there. I know that I shouldn't ask but, I had some kind of goop on my Koetsu that made it sound terrible. I think that the 300 is a better cart than the 103, in it's stock form. We also know to re-check alignment and VTA as things happen that we don't know about. Although I think the servo arm system will not get the most out of today's better cartridges, changing it out is not a simple task, due to it's complex control circuits, tied to the motor. Plus the fact that you have been spoiled by the elegant arm execution of the arm functions of that unit. What is the rest of your system?

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Re: Cartridge recommendation for DP-45F TT?

Post by Freddymac1 » 04 May 2017 16:17

Sorry missed your system discription. The AT Art9 should be a choice if you want to go that far.

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Re: Cartridge recommendation for DP-45F TT?

Post by Freddymac1 » 05 May 2017 01:20

The Art9 is very low output about half of the Denon 300

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Re: Cartridge recommendation for DP-45F TT?

Post by wolfie62 » 05 May 2017 04:31

I have the same turntable, the Denon DP45F. The date code (on the rear) on mine is 1980.

You can use any good to VERY good high compliance cartridge, as long as the vertical distance between the stylus tip and top of cartridge is not too great. I say that, because there is no adjusting the height of the tonearm.

That Denon uses a very light weight tonearm, relatively, to other TTs out there. The Servotracer arm solves many problems that other TTs have, namely tonearm resonance that depends on cartridge compliance/tonearm weight, and tracking of warped records by having the servo control "bounce" that other arms just can't handle.

Once you have used quite a few cartridges on your Denon as I have, you will learn that you have been spoiled by the tremendous tracking ability of the Denon ServoTracer arm. It does amazing things with warped and scratched records! Where some cartridges sound great, they don't always track that well. They will readily jump from scratches and warps on most other turn tables. In short....choose a good cartridge, the Servotracer arm will keep the stylus in the groove for you, and solve the arm resonance issues in a very wide range of cartridge compliance ratings.

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Re: Cartridge recommendation for DP-45F TT?

Post by captmark » 05 May 2017 06:36

I have ran a plethora of cartridges on 45 and 47f's. There are several I really like sound-wise, but that's truly personal preference and in no way should influence your decision-whether it's mine or anyone elses.

With that said, Wolfie is correct that you are mostly limited by the lack of VTA adjustment-for that reason I would suggest you stay away from the taller Grados. You do not want to play around too much with using a thinner mat and such on these tables, as what you may gain in VTA you will lose by introducing more rumble and other spurious noises to the stylus.

I always steer people away from the Shures with brushes (I would say Pickering/Stanton also but you say you want new). I use Shures a lot on the non-servo arms but I've found some issues with trying to sync the all-in one anti-skate control with the extra VTF needed to compensate for the brush. Of course you can use any of them with the brush up.

A generalization (I was going to say stereotype for the pun) is if you're wanting to go a little more rock and roll and stay affordable a MM cart would suit your needs. Carts I have installed for people and have gotten positive responses on include: Ortofon 2M RED/Blue, AT440mla/b (this is the most rock and roll here but I use it on old country albums from the 60's/70's and it's fantastic for that) and the venerable DL-110. IMHO, if you enjoyed the 301 I see no reason why you wouldn't try a 301mkII. It's most of what you had with a bit more air in the soundstage-you can find them a little over $300 and even less if you look overseas.

Don't get caught in the trap of thinking you need to buying a big $$$ cart for this table. There was a thread running a while back here with a guy who had a Dynavector 17D2 and couldn't get it to sound right on his 45 or 47 (I forget which one)-it was too much cart for the arm. Spending @ $300 (or less) new will get you something quite enjoyable for your rig. Assessing the condition of your vinyl you'll play on it may make a difference in what kind of stylus you might like.

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Re: Cartridge recommendation for DP-45F TT?

Post by EdAInWestOC » 05 May 2017 19:21

Did you use the same cartridge since 1985? Anywhere along the line did you have that cartridge retipped?

If you used that cartridge regularly, that stylus wore out long ago and you have damaged your LPs. Hopefully that is not the case but, if you replace the cartridge and you notice the LP still sound lousy don't blame the new cartridge. Blame yourself for not paying attention to the stylus condition.

Ed

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Re: Cartridge recommendation for DP-45F TT?

Post by sturgus » 07 May 2017 09:28

couldbfishin wrote:I bought a new Denon DP-45F in about 1985 with a DL-300 MC cartridge and have used it without a problem for the past 32 years. I have just started noticing my albums don't sound as great as they used to. Considering buying a new cartridge. I have read the threads on the Denon DL-160, 110 and most recently the 103 and they all sound encouraging. Searched eBay for the discontinued DL-160 and only found rebuilt or used, no NOS. I prefer a new cartridge.

I will use it with either a Marantz 2275 or 2325 restored receiver with built in phono preamps, or a McIntosh C20 preamp, and two MC-40 mono-blocks. I prefer R&B, and vintage rock and drive JBL L150A or AR2ax speakers.

My ideal price would be under $300, but could stretch that a little for noticeably better performance.

I have never changed out a tone arm, and would prefer to buy a cartridge that mounts easily to my stock Denon DP-45F TT.

Thanks in advance for your recommendations.
I think the 110 would work for you. Here is a place with a decent price.
https://www.newaudiounited.com/index.ph ... ath=71_124
If you have MC capabilities the 301 is also nice.

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Re: Cartridge recommendation for DP-45F TT?

Post by Bugler » 17 May 2017 05:14

I know I'm posting a bit late but here I go anyway. As others have stated the DP45-F is compatible with a rather wide variety of cartridges. I have four headshells for my DP45-F.
Mounted cartridges are as follows:
Denon DL-110 HOMC
Denon DL-60 MM
Grado Gold1 MI
Stanton 500 MM

I bought the DL-110 a few months ago and am very pleased with it. For records of known exc condition
I use the DL-60 (came with turntable) for records of unknown condition (bought used)
Grado Gold1 also for records of known exc condition
Stanton 500 seems to do a good job with records in less than great condition (surface scratches etc)

I also have a Stanton 681EEE-II-S which isn't mounted right now. I did mount it and try it with the DP45-F and it performed quite well without the brush.

Bear in mind the phono stage makes a big difference. I have my DP45-F fed into a Gold Aero DB45 Signature phono pre which was rather expensive. I should also add my turntable has been totally recapped/modded with premium components.

Currently the DP45-F is set up with the DL-110 and my ReVox B795 with Audio Technica AT30E LOMC cartridge.

I do spend the majority of my days and nights listening to music. Vinyl and reel to reel tape.

I tried to add a couple photos but was told the files are too big. I have no clue how to change that.

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Re: Cartridge recommendation for DP-45F TT?

Post by wolfie62 » 31 Jul 2017 17:44

Bugler wrote:
I tried to add a couple photos but was told the files are too big. I have no clue how to change that.
On my desktop computer, I open the picture file with MS Paint. Hit the "resize" tab, click on "pixel", and enter "800". It will resize the picture to a very comfortable size for posting here.

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Re: Cartridge recommendation for DP-45F TT?

Post by wolfie62 » 31 Jul 2017 17:47

One thing I have found about the Denon servo arm TTs, is that the servos make the use of the brushes on Shure carts totally unnecessary. Even my little DP15F TT takes care of damping the tonearm on warped records.

I keep my records clean, remove the dust before playing, so the carbon fiber brush has little purpose for me.

I have never used a MC cartridge.

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Re: Cartridge recommendation for DP-45F TT?

Post by couldbfishin » 26 Apr 2019 01:26

It has been a year since I posted this original question. I appreciate the responses. I did wind up buying on eBay a used Denon DL-160 MC for about $170. It replaced the original DL-300 cartridge. It sounded fine for a while, but then I put that turntable aside and haven't used it for a while.

Since then I also bought on eBay another Denon DP-45F TT which came with an Ortofon MC10 Super II cartridge. That TT was in better cosmetic shape than the original one I bought in the mid-80's. So, I sent it off and had it restored/rebuilt. I bought a slightly used Denon DL-110 cartridge and replaced the worn Ortofon. I use this as one of my primary TTs with a Marantz 2325 receiver and JBL L150s and L110s.

But, back to my original 45F, the one I bought in the mid-80's. The DL-160 I bought used is about worn out. I am about to do some recording on a Technics 1500 RTR that I bought recently, and I want to have a new cartridge on this TT for that purpose.

I have been reading about the Denon DL 103R MC cartridge. It says it plays best on a dense tone arm. My words. I don't know tone arms, or what exactly that means. And, I don't think the 45F has this type tone arm?

So, taking into consideration all the suggestions from a year ago, and any newer cartridges that may have come out since then, can you please provide some suggestions on a new cartridge for my original DP45F TT, for under say $500, that will do a good job of playing vinyl in good shape, for recording on my new/vintage Technics 1500 RTR?

I do wash my vinyl, and wipe it clean before each and every play. Most of the LPs I will be recording are Mobile Fidelity recordings.

The original DP45F TT will be playing through a Marantz 2285B receiver, which does not have separate MM/MC connections, but I have been told it is made to handle all cartridge types.

Thanks
Couldbfishin
Houston, TX

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Re: Cartridge recommendation for DP-45F TT?

Post by wolfie62 » 26 Apr 2019 13:09

I still have my original DP45F also, from 1984.

The sky’s the limit in cartridges, really. The servo tonearm is self adjusting for the different compliance of different carts. It damps the resonance.

I run only vintage carts, from Empires, to ADC to Shures. You should be able to run any Denon cart, MM or MC.

Likely, you’ll need a step up transformer for that MC cart if the Marantz doesn’t have the gain for a Low Output MC cart. About 10x more gain than a MM cart.

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Re: Cartridge recommendation for DP-45F TT?

Post by couldbfishin » 26 Apr 2019 15:59

Wolfie62, thanks for your responses. Both a year ago and today. You seem to know a lot about the Denon turntables and cartridges.
I will check with the guy who has rebuilt one of my Marantz receivers and ask him about the 2285B receivers ability to use a low output MC cartridge. The TT originally came with a DL-300 MC low output 0.3. So I am guessing that it can handle it.
I have two DP-45F TT now, and love them. So quiet and easy to use. I also have a couple of B&O 5500 TT, a Dual 1229Q (set up for playing 78's) and a Marantz 6100. Out of this lot, the Denon DP45F is easily my favorite. I have read about the DP47F, and how good it is, and was considering buying one, but then I read it is basically a DP45F.
I use Shure 91ED cartridges on my Dual 1229Q with N91-3 stylus for playing 78s. I run that through a McIntosh C-20 preamp with separate LP equalization settings, and two McIntosh MC-40 mono block amps. I just bought a used Tascam CD-RW 750 to record vintage jazz 78s onto CDs.
I also like the B&O 5500 system. I have two of them. In my study I have one set up with AR2ax speakers and it sounds wonderful. I use the MMC3 and MMC1 cartridges on those two systems.
Thanks again.

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Re: Cartridge recommendation for DP-45F TT?

Post by wolfie62 » 26 Apr 2019 16:58

What I know about MC carts I learned in here. I don’t own any.

I have 9 turntables. I love the servo arm units! Hard to mess up cart/arm match. Not so with my other 6 tables.

My latest cart foray has been in Empire carts. Sound quality, like merging the best Shure with the best ADC. They satisfy my cart quest...for now!

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