They laughed until the DIY retips started to play

[bauzace50]

@ Paladin, and @ fscl,

Thankyou for remembering my plight with the DL-304! It would surely be worth a try, but I already gave the cartridge to a worthy new owner. I will send a note for him to try it out.

Best wishes,
b50

[1200y3]

I just repaired my Technicraft TC-4000 (A/T U.S. nude linear contact) I had lying around. It's tip is nearly impossible to repair because it is too tiny. When I tried to fix it, the crimped end where it was broken made it tough and the thorn broke inside and I could not do anything about it. I only kept it to look at under my microscope, but I decided I would make it easier to view. I took a thorn and wet it with super glue and attached it to the OUTSIDE of the tip and stylus bar. It works and sounds O.K., but I didn't attach it to the original A/T, I used an old Phantstiehl M92E for eaze because I can twist it to adjust it. I will keep the original bar for future attachment of another tip. It is a tapered cantilever.

So there is hope. So just hang on to any broken stylus parts, and if you have tip as small as this linear contact, stick it to a piece of masking tape to hold it while handling.

It is too soon to say if it works or sounds good.

[Paladin]

B50- that 304 is a sad story. Unlike my Sumo that waited almost 33 years, the 304 has a chance to make a comeback cheaply.

1200y3- I’m keeping my fingers crossed. I’d be worried the super-glued joint would collapse but it seems to be holding. More reinforcement of the joint would help. Do you agree? A hobbyist pin vice and small bit might be able to ream the thorn out. And you know thorns burn?

[1200y3]

Super glue is unpredictable, but I won't clean sthe stylus to hard. I would be scared of melting the tip, it is fine, if I used heat. When Super Glue works, it works. Contact cement is great because it sticks, tightens, and can be removed.

The thorn that I used is as fine as a hair. There would be about 1/64 inch gap between the stylus tip (which is now only the tip), but the mass reduction that the connector has produced may be a big improvement for other styli tips. This tip is the smallest I have ever tried. It would be an A/T Shibata probably. More to gain than lose.

There is no guarantee, and this linear contact has great openness in the high frequency, but it may be giving me a headache. Time may tell, but it is really only used for reference while I perfect my sphericals. They have a much more powerful image. I am having trouble believing that anything else comes close to solving indentation tracking like the Shure MR did. (tracking buzz)

It's good to know the option of burning a thorn.

Anyhow, I got a fine line again. That's $100s. And I got a couple more somewhere on the floor! Might find one by accident. These styli at one time were only $25-$80 for replacements!

[Dadimo]

I have a Sumo amp and preamp. They make some decent sounding stuff. I was not aware that they made phono cartridges though, thanks for the interesting article Paladin

[Paladin]

The Sumo cartridge is pretty rare. I’ve only seen one and it was broken. It beckoned to me to take it home. I didn’t realize that their equipment would become virtually unknown today. I believe Sumo preamplifiers were tested and found to be world class.

1200y3- if you didn’t know, there is another glue option that is more drastic and permanent. Elmer’s Ultimate glue (or Gorilla Glue but I find Elmer’s is stronger) expands with moisture in the air and hardens like epoxy. It makes a very lightweight and strong bond. A loose fit thorn could be put in then locked. Once set, only sanding or scraping will remove it. Unlike the fast super-glues, using polyurethane glues gives plenty of time to align the tip but once set we’re stuck!

Well, it’s all fun stuff and potentially money saving.

[abelb]

Does anyone know where to buy the styli without having to salvage them from other carts? I know it's a long shot but like Paladin I'd love to give at a go, and there's not much to lose!

I was thinking about using a solvent to dissolve the existing glue around the stylus and then trying to jam a new stylus in through the old hole under a microscope, and using Epoxy to secure it.
Where are all these small cartridge manufacturers purchasing their styli? Relentless Google trawling has revealed nothing.

[1200y3]

Paladin: I considered Goriilla Glue because it expands and may help when using an undersised splint. It holds while I wait for it to cure.

Abelb:The U.S supplier is MCM Electronics. They have generics for $7.00 up. But each one is different, so it could be a hit and miss situation. I caught some Shure Phansteihls and find them excellent because the stylus will just pull out of the knob. Then you have to find the best sounding size from experience. Manufacturers have to make everything sound generally equal by matching compliances with knobs and tips. But in no time you will be able to audibly recognize a tip size. But an excellent quality low cost stylus is the Shure M92E, it has both an excellent compliance, and tip and cantilever ($15 US). You could use its tip for something good, and but a cheap stylus on its compliance. But start out with risk free experiments to get experience. It can be frustrating, but the rewards I get from it exceed all my other hobbies. Why not, that $200-$500 barrier to get high end sound has been broken!

There are others you can Google:
styli.co.nz (Austrailia)
needle depot (US)
Canadian Astatic
Parts express USA (DIY paradise)
Needle Doctor USA (original early cartridge 'doctor')
e-Bay-alot of Phansteihl MRs,Shibatas, and generic line contacts

[Paladin]

Finding raw tips would be great- no fuss and a lot less risk of losing a cantilever. I hate to bobbitt a cartridge. We could buy a package and spread them around. Raw, they’d probably be cheap but where would we get them? JICO?

I’ve seen that Sumiko. With the exposed stylus it’s scary-fragile looking. I’m glad Sumo wears a coat. I also considered using a rose or orange tree thorn but the cactus are the most linear shaped.

1200y3: I agree with you about the Pfanstiehl/MCM replacements. The tips are easy to pull out. I imagine that without the wire support they must be very compliant- definitely for an ULM tonearm. The B&O SP 12 retip has the MCM tip.

I just thought of something. I recently bought some after-market Audio Technica and Shure tips from MCM. On the packages are marked “EVG” and http://www.russellind.com . They're fresh. That might be a start for everyone to start sniffing for cantilevers.

[Thomas_A]

I just made a measured comparison between the Sumo and the V15III. It shows an increased response of +2.5 dB at 5 kHz, and up to +5 dB at 12 kHz compared to the V15. Now the V15 should be a little down in the highs but 0.5-1.5 dB, depending on loading.

Just wonder if this response is similar to the Sumo original? If not, the retip should have introduced several mechanical resonances in the 5-20 kHz region to boost the signal.

Has someone made a retip where the original tip has been recorded as well?

T

[1200y3]

I have a few modifications I have been doing simply to improve personal listening enjoyment, so every thing is done by ear. As a means to choose the simplest or best design I intend to measure them when I feel I have them finished. But my conclusion to the mechanical resonance idea of Thomas's is that the thorn is decoupling the tip and reducing them, so it must be less. Tip decoupling (load decoupling) is decoupling the mass. My problems are the reduction of bass. If the joint (splint is larger, then resonances will occur. Simply by cutting a fine crack in the cantilever of a Phanstehil (cheap and solid) makes a stylus as listenable as my V15 (I use a fresh disposable shaver blade) by reducing all resonances and most sibalance. I will try a crack on the left and right side of the cantilever and measure them against the original with sine waves.

If the tip isn't overly large, the cantilever and compliance is the most significant part of the stylus. The stylus tip will grab the tightest detail, but it will be colored by everything else in it's way. The bigger the stylus size, the bigger and fuller the sound, as long as we have good damping and resonance control. So we have a "analytical" sound with a line contact which will only make sense in the sweet spot, or we have a music lover's sound with another shape where a stereo effect can be enjoyed everywhere in the room. But those tip resonances have to killed and damped. It can only be done at home. People confuse these resonances with mistracking, and they do cause the stylus to mistrack.

[Thomas_A]

I have a few modifications I have been doing simply to improve personal listening enjoyment, so every thing is done by ear. As a means to choose the simplest or best design I intend to measure them when I feel I have them finished. But my conclusion to the mechanical resonance idea of Thomas's is that the thorn is decoupling the tip and reducing them, so it must be less. Tip decoupling (load decoupling) is decoupling the mass. My problems are the reduction of bass. If the joint (splint is larger, then resonances will occur. Simply by cutting a fine crack in the cantilever of a Phanstehil (cheap and solid) makes a stylus as listenable as my V15 (I use a fresh disposable shaver blade) by reducing all resonances and most sibalance. I will try a crack on the left and right side of the cantilever and measure them against the original with sine waves.

If the tip isn't overly large, the cantilever and compliance is the most significant part of the stylus. The stylus tip will grab the tightest detail, but it will be colored by everything else in it's way. The bigger the stylus size, the bigger and fuller the sound, as long as we have good damping and resonance control. So we have a "analytical" sound with a line contact which will only make sense in the sweet spot, or we have a music lover's sound with another shape where a stereo effect can be enjoyed everywhere in the room. But those tip resonances have to killed and damped. It can only be done at home. People confuse these resonances with mistracking, and they do cause the stylus to mistrack.

My initial thought is that a thorn will cause a discontinuity of the cantilever. As the cantilever itself, the joined part will have its own resonant behaviour, besides the main/cantilever-suspension/arm (i.e. decoupled above 8-12 Hz). A second decoupling of cantilever and magnet part is something not desired at least up to 10 kHz, I can not understand why it should be an advantage? The best solution is to have breakup modes above the audible fr range, or having controlled/damped ones to keep high-frequency response linear.

I do not know how the original Sumo measures (although it states +/-1 dB up to 20 kHz), so the brighter response may either be due to the original design or due to breakup resonances at 6/12 kHz.

[1200y3]

I would guess it would split it into two smaller predominant resonances, but it does sound better. It isn't decoupling the stylus from the pickup, it will isolate the record mass. The cantilever (stylus bar) is actually part of the pickup, and it will pickup anything. The stylus tip could be looked at as being similar to a bell. A small handle would have less interference than a larger handle. Similarily with the string holding the ball. Grado uses 4 separate pieces on their highest quality carts, then 3 on others.

If it splits the resonance, they should be higher than the range we are using.

What I have noticed with a large spherical when decoupled is that the untrackable HF is no longer "fuzzy" or "spitty". It is not harmonic distortion, but more of a harmonic S/N ratio. It stays the same and smoothe. It has control. A good one to learn from is the AT 3482P (because it uses a carbon fiber cantilever), but the cartridge still needs damping material to get it completely clean.

When a stylus cannot handle the modulations, the amplitude rises. When it is controlled, it won't.

The Decca VR and GE VR2 are good examples of a cartridge that the sound does not have to travel to the pickup through a stylus bar.

ALSO KEEP IN MIND that the styli I am referring to are huger styli that would have alot of mass. It is more than likely reducing the mass to that of a regular sized high quality stylus, or raising resonance frequencies to that of a regular stylus.

[bakelite2]

Fabulous work, I am green with envy as I have a B&O SP12 in need of a new cantilever which I have been trying to work out how to fix myself. Trouble is the stub which the cantilever attaches to is longer than what is left of the cantilever and I can't figure out a way of removing the left over part so as to re-attach a new cantilever.
Your post gives me hope, keep up your great work.