What exactly makes a speaker 'good'?

[Sheilajeanne]

I recently acquired a complete stereo setup, with turntable, from a garage sale for the paltry sum of $25. The speakers are a brand I've never heard of, dmb Classic III. There is no other identifying info on them, not even where they're made. I was told the stereo set is about 20 years old.

Other than using your ears, how do you determine the quality of a speaker? What makes one better than another? How do older speakers (the big ones that often sat on the floor) compare with modern ones?

I currently have a pair of Realistic speakers with an 8 inch woofer, and I can hear things with them I haven't been able to hear before on my vinyl and CDs.

I have a feeling this is a topic which MAY boil down to personal preference, but I would like some objective parameters for evaluating the speakers that came with this new equipment.

[Alec124c41]

Cup your hands around your mouth, and speak. Speakers should not have any of that sound. If there is a little, it can often be ameliorated by adding fiberglass insulation to the inside of the box.
Frequency response should be wide and smooth, without gaps or extra strong frequencies.
Some recordings have a wonderful sense of the space they were made in. How much of this is heard is often the best way to compare two set-ups.

Cheers,
Alec

[Sheilajeanne]

My current speakers sometimes make me feel like I'm listening to a live recording.

Yesterday, I was listening to a good quality CD of some violin music, and had that sense of actually being in an auditorium.

Then, I played a Johnny Cash CD that had, I think, originally been recorded on vinyl in mono, then electronically monkeyed with to simulate stereo. The difference was painfully obvious.

As much as I love Johnny, my ears were ready to pack it in after listening to only half of the tracks! I'd ditch the CD, except it's quite rare. Sun records wouldn't let Johnny do any gospel recordings. When Columbia offered him a contract, he insisted that be part of the deal. Columbia said 'yes', and that was a big factor in Johnny signing a contract with them. This particular CD contains the two albums he recorded as a result of that deal. Too bad they didn't do a better job of it!

So, yeah, I am quite fond of my old Realistic speakers, and have been able to alter some shelves to give them a spot.

The new speakers will likely have to remain on the floor if I keep them, as they are much larger. And that's the main reason I will probably NOT keep them! I've googled the brand name, and have come up with absolutely nothing on them. I have to think that is NOT a good sign.

[duficity]

Better speakers are usually heavier due to thicker cabinet construction. That helps control cabinet vibrations which muddy up the sound. Also, the wire connections will usually be of better quality. Rap the cabinet and you should get a dull think.

[duficity]

Thonk

[cats squirrel]

I quite often get a dull think

it might also be dependant on what you hit the cabinet with (driving point impedance).

[Sheilajeanne]

I quite often get a dull think

it might also be dependant on what you hit the cabinet with (driving point impedance).

I'm having a dull think today, after staying up to 3 AM watching Captains Courageous. What a GREAT movie! I'd never seen it before.

I think Duf meant to rap on the cabinet with your knuckles. However, I do have a hammer handy, just in case...

If the speakers were any heavier, I'd need help moving them. They are about 30" tall, and made of 3/4" chipboard. I just managed to get the front cover off, and it's a 3-way bass reflex speaker. I got the name wrong above: it's dbm Classic III, not dmb, by Laser Audio.

The frequency response is 40 HZ - 20KHZ = 2 dB
Power handling: 5 watts - 100 watts RMS
Efficiency: 19 dB SPL 1 watt/ 1 meter.

Anyone familiar with this particular speaker, or one similar to it?

Edit: finally got a hit on the company name. They certainly are pretty obscure! http://www.canuckaudiomart.com/forum/vi ... w=previous

[JoeE SP9]

"White Van" speakers are not well thought of. Frankly they're not very good.

With that said the only thing that really matters with any speaker is how it sounds to you. To really know if what you think you want to hear is "good" or not you have to audition some speakers at a decent audio store. I realize this may not be the easiest thing to do as there aren't as many brick and mortar stores as there used to be. Either way I suggest you make the effort to actually audiution some good speakers. Another option is to find another audiophile that's close to you and listen to their system.

Once having been exposed to the "good" stuff and being aware of it you'll know.

I'm certain any of the regular posters here would be more than happy to demo their system for you. You might want to PM a regular who may be close.

[thespirit3]

"Other than using your ears, how do you determine the quality of a speaker?"

In my opinion, this should be all about 'using your ears'. Basically, you want speakers to have a wide and flat frequency response. This simple statement rapidly becomes increasingly complicated when you start thinking of the physics involved. Ultimately, your ears are the best judge as even 'perfect' speakers on paper may not be to your liking.

Generally, if you find yourself using tone controls on your amp you can be sure you would benefit from a speaker upgrade. Decent speakers shouldn't need the sound 'played with' to sound good.

[Sheilajeanne]

I guess I need to learn to trust my ears. But since they don't work very well (cochlear implant in one, hearing aid in the other) I have trouble trusting them.

I already had my doubts about the speakers when I couldn't find the name anywhere on Google. It could be the best thing I got out of this deal was the stero cabinet. That's all right by me: if my current stereo fits, it's well worth the $25 bucks! The cabinet it's in right now is just a little too shallow for me to be able to close the glass door.

Spirit, I was WONDERING why graphic equalizers went out of style. This set includes a 10 or 12 channel equalizer.

[PeterW.]

I recently acquired a complete stereo setup, with turntable, from a garage sale for the paltry sum of $25. The speakers are a brand I've never heard of, dmb Classic III. There is no other identifying info on them, not even where they're made. I was told the stereo set is about 20 years old.

Other than using your ears, how do you determine the quality of a speaker? What makes one better than another? How do older speakers (the big ones that often sat on the floor) compare with modern ones?

I currently have a pair of Realistic speakers with an 8 inch woofer, and I can hear things with them I haven't been able to hear before on my vinyl and CDs.

I have a feeling this is a topic which MAY boil down to personal preference, but I would like some objective parameters for evaluating the speakers that came with this new equipment.

Generally, that you like them is enough. And as you get more experienced and exposed to more and different types of speakers playing more and different types of music you will become more and more discriminating. But, I still like the sound of the first pair of speakers I ever owned (AR4x) - although I have moved on to bigger and better speakers in the intervening 42 years.

De gustibus non est disputandum. DO NOT let your personal preferences be influenced by others - again, if you like the sound, that is enough. Eventually you will either evolve to different tastes or you will not. If you do, you will come by it naturally as a progression from what you have now (and presumably like) to something you like better. If you like what you have sufficiently to be content, while being anathema to the Audio Industry, you will still be able to enjoy it fully.

But, using my history as a base, my tastes always exceeded my available funds - so I learned to find damaged goods, broken goods and/or cast-offs. Which I refurbished, rebuilt or outright re-created. And from that exposure I learned a great deal about the care-and-feeding of the stuff as well as enjoyed considerable exposure to many different options in equipment. Not everyone is so-inclined. But take your time, put yourself in harm's way, listen a lot, make decisions with due deliberation. Think of it similar to marriage: Marry in haste, repent at leisure.

Peter Wieck
Melrose Park, PA

[charlieblue]

Other than using your ears, how do you determine the quality of a speaker? What makes one better than another? How do older speakers (the big ones that often sat on the floor) compare with modern ones?

Hi Sheila,

At the risk of being boring by repetition, making a good speaker is actually all about numbers. Apart from any mishaps or failing parts, speaker age has little to do with good sound, it's the original design - and execution - that makes the difference. Please take a look at the interview the late John Dunlavy gave for Stereophile...http://www.stereophile.com/interviews/163/index.html

Like JD said, a speaker that measures good will sound good too, all one has to do is pay attention to the (not so ) little details

All the best in your search for good sound,

Charlie

PS I failed to upload JD's article "Loudspeaker Accuracy: the quest for getting loudspeaker design right", published on WSR, issue 58. Do look it up on the net if you have the chance

PS2 alright, alright, I know DAL speakers were a bunch of ugly boxes. I suppose Harvey "Gizmo" Rosenberg (Guildmeister of The Triode Guild ) had those in mind when commenting on "monkey coffins" ... then again, they were designed for good sound at low cost, not for good looks and high WAF or Friend-AF ... be that audiophile or other

PS3 Single drivers, dipoles, bipoles, horns and other exotic designs ( ) are to be covered at some other thread, yes?

[beacher6]

What makes a speaker sound good? Yes you can test it by knocking on the cabinet and listening for rattles and a thud sound. Yes you can look at the materials and construction. Without getting inside you have no idea about the crossover or drivers. A lot depends on room size, acoustics, what is connected to the speakers and in my opinion most of all is the type of music you listen to. A simple 8 inch wizzer speaker may sound better than a 4 way. I have 3 GR Research Av/2 for some music, Jensen Tri-ettes for tube listening, and Spicas for vocals and soundstage-imaging. Its a very subjective area.

[LousyTourist]

Sheilajeanne - I don't mean to be blunt, but if your hearing is impaired, then the ONLY relevant criteria is what sounds good to you. "Golden ear" people can quibble over trivial comparisons, and this is only marginally tolerable because there is thought to be ONE truth in how something sounds to all those with ears.

On the other hand, your ears are hybrids. Who but you can say?