Proper Speaker Placement

amplifiers, receivers and loudspeakers
lenjack
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Re: Proper Speaker Placement

Post by lenjack » 11 Aug 2018 01:30

Refer to Roy Allison's 1973 articles on proper placement for flattest bass response. Worth looking up. Distance from center of woofer to 3 nearest room boundaries should be as different as possible, or ratio of 1 : 1.25 : 1.6. This will avoid large peaks and dropouts.

JoeE SP9
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Re: Proper Speaker Placement

Post by JoeE SP9 » 10 Nov 2018 21:10

Cardas Audio has some fairly comprehensive directions with diagrams for speaker placement.

hobie1dog
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Re: Proper Speaker Placement

Post by hobie1dog » 14 Nov 2018 06:00

My room is only 13x14 so I have less than a foot in all directions to move speakers around. Thinking back, most all the rooms have little available areas to move speakers around with furniture, big tv's, projection screens, etc.

JDJX
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Re: Proper Speaker Placement

Post by JDJX » 27 Dec 2018 23:22

Fact is, unless you have a dedicated listening room and are able to place speakers anywhere that you please, most of us have to settle for the lesser of all evils and place them where it makes the most sense in the available room wisely and is also.... is aesthetically pleasing for the wife, etc .

Personally, I have my left main a bit closer to a wall then the right.
I Live in an apartment now so, space is limited.
To even out bass response, I found that a 3db cut in the let channel only in the 120hz range on my EQ works nicely for this. :)

BTW there is also a 3db cut in the 240hz rage for both channels.

In any event, you must combine both channels/play back in mono to get the same in both speakers to know what to adjust in in just one given channel . The mono button on vintage receivers was very handy for this, and other trouble shooting

For those who might be wondering, the only other cut or increase on my (10 band) EQ is a 3db cut in the 2khz range for both channels .
IMO just some some very slight EQ adjustments are often all that is necessary to even out frequency response to a perfectly satisfactory degree. :)

Why some are dead against an EQ is beyond me. :)

Hermetech Mastering
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Re: Proper Speaker Placement

Post by Hermetech Mastering » 28 Dec 2018 09:48

JDJX wrote:
27 Dec 2018 23:22
Why some are dead against an EQ is beyond me. :)
It's actually quite easy to understand. Many people come from the "less is more" school, "straight wire with gain", minimalist school of audiophilia, which states that the more components there are in the playback chain, the more harm they are likely to do to the original signal. So called "Graphic EQs" are often at the top of the list of such detested components. There are also arguments against why trying to EQ the sound of the room is a bad idea (can lead to more problems than it solves, such as phase issues etc.), whereas room treatment almost always leads to far better results, that need to be heard to be believed. It's beyond me why so many invest thousands or tens of thousands in great stereo gear, and then put it in an untreated room. :)

But at the end of the day, it's subjective, and if you like what you hear, you can be happy. :mrgreen:

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Re: Proper Speaker Placement

Post by JDJX » 28 Dec 2018 14:52

Facts that most anti EQ people miss are these......

If you only cut a frequency, it is like straight wire with gain...and does no add any distortion.
iit is only when you increase a frequency band that adds any insignificant distortion
.
Also, IMO you only need about a 10 band EQ for home use and just 10 bands can be very useful,

BTW, some anti EQ people uses a DSP which adds multiple things and distortion into the signal path.

Granted an EQ demands some knowledge to set up properly.
However, so does a TT . Should we now be anti TT ?
So does a sub. Should we all give up subs?

Now..... you can have a great system but, if the frequency balance is off, it is all for naught.
I'm amazed that some who want a pure sound will settle for a bad frequency balance simply due to ignorance about an EQ. :)

Hermetech Mastering
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Re: Proper Speaker Placement

Post by Hermetech Mastering » 28 Dec 2018 16:52

JDJX wrote:
28 Dec 2018 14:52
If you only cut a frequency, it is like straight wire with gain...and does no add any distortion.
iit is only when you increase a frequency band that adds any insignificant distortion
You have never heard of audible phase problems with EQ then? I'd highly recommend educating yourself on how EQs actually work. Start with simple passive RC and CR filters, lots of great info on Wikipedia etc. They never boost anything, only cut, as do the inductor based circuits on my passive analogue mastering EQ. All analogue EQs are Minimum Phase and create delays at different frequencies. This can clearly be heard. Whether it sounds better or worse than the input signal is largely subjective. This is how analogue EQ works, it's just physics. In DSP you can implement Linear Phase EQs, but they also have their own trade-offs (pre-ringing that can easily be heard on high frequency transients etc.) Swings and roundabouts.

Look, I'm not anti-EQ at all. I've been a full time mastering engineer for over a decade, with both analogue and digital EQs in daily use on client projects. I've helped develop some of the most popular digital plugin EQs of the last few years, used by thousands of audio professionals (check out TDR, you can find un-crippled free versions of most of their plugs, which I highly recommend). I wasn't coming from an anti-EQ perspective, just trying to enlighten you on your "Why some are dead against an EQ is beyond me" comment. There ARE good, sound, scientific reasons for not messing with the signal any more than necessary. I'd also argue that if you are dealing with digital sources, then DSP EQ can be far more transparent than a round trip DAC - Analogue EQ - ADC loop, particularly if any of those components are sub par.

I'm not anti-turntable or anti-sub either, I use both every day. :)

In fact, I've spent the last couple of days running the pink noise track from the Hi-Fi News Analogue Test LP through my vinyl chain and observing the spectrogram output so that I can "equalise" (the original meaning of the term) the effects of my stylus and phono pre to better match a flat transfer, with digital EQ, for better rips. So actually, I quite like EQ.

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Re: Proper Speaker Placement

Post by JDJX » 28 Dec 2018 17:36

BTW.... to no one in particular.....

No speaker driver is linear.
Trying to to identify and compensation for any given narrow peak or valley in speaker's frequency curve with just room mods is an exercise in futility at best .

I'm not against some minor room mods as I'm aware that most of what we hear is reflected sound.
However, I also wonder if some know the difference between a sound absorber and a sound disperser in room treatments.
In any event, room mods are only one tool that can be used and is never a cure all for everything:)

BTW are those minor phase issues aforementioned even noticed ?

Also with a DSP you first have to convert the analog signal to digital and then eventually back to analog,
Where is the unobstructed signal path with that.... just to start?

I'm not against a DSP if one will solve an issue that someone has, but we all must keep everything in perspective. :)

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Re: Proper Speaker Placement

Post by Hermetech Mastering » 28 Dec 2018 17:47

Did you read my post?
JDJX wrote:
28 Dec 2018 17:36
BTW are those minor phase issues aforementioned even noticed ?
Hermetech Mastering wrote:
28 Dec 2018 16:52
This can clearly be heard.
And again...
JDJX wrote:
28 Dec 2018 17:36
Also with a DSP you first have to convert the analog signal to digital and then eventually back to analog,
Where is the unobstructed signal path with that.... just to start? :)
Hermetech Mastering wrote:
28 Dec 2018 16:52
I'd also argue that if you are dealing with digital sources, then DSP EQ can be far more transparent than a round trip DAC - Analogue EQ - ADC loop, particularly if any of those components are sub par.
It really depends upon the quality of the tools you are using, and the experience of the operator. Analogue or digital is beside the point.

JDJX
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Re: Proper Speaker Placement

Post by JDJX » 28 Dec 2018 21:13

I seems that some are saying that a frequency unbalance is not important and can not be heard.

Like I said, things have to be put into perspective . :)

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Re: Proper Speaker Placement

Post by vesper90 » 22 Feb 2019 18:56

Hi,

sorry to break in like this. I have an idea or more a experiment I would say. For a few months now I have some new DALI Senzor 3 speakers which I enjoy very much along with my Onkyo A-9010 amp.
I was reading about speaker placement and how I can affect the sound. The speakers I own have a bassreflex port at the back of them. I read that to get the most out of the speakers you need to place them a few inches from the wall. The current situation now is that my speakers stand on a desk, pretty far away from a drywall, at an angle, which is less than ideal. As you can see in the attachements its not much but it's what I have to work with and I'd like to get the most out of my speakers.
Since my space is limited to my desk I do not have the luxury the place my speakers the way I would like so I's like to do a experiment.
My idea is to make some "sound-reflector" wich would look like the images below. That way I could still get some reflection but at the same time I could set-up the speakers in a position suitable for the space that I have.

What are your thoughts on this, could this work?
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Spinner45
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Re: Proper Speaker Placement

Post by Spinner45 » 22 Feb 2019 21:14

There is no real "perfect speaker placement" in the civilized world.
However, there are several placement rules that have been mentioned (example, in a corner = more bass, etc.)
Because people have different rooms, furnishings, and tastes, the only way is to experiment.

Sunwire
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Re: Proper Speaker Placement

Post by Sunwire » 22 Feb 2019 21:47

Wavelength01.gif
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The problem those "sound reflectors" is that they are far too small.
The wavelengths of low bass frequencies are very large. A small object like those reflectors will be "invisible" to low bass frequencies. The reflectors will change the sound, but they will only affect frequencies with wavelengths equal to or smaller than the size of the reflectors.
The reason speakers placed closer to a wall or corner produce more bass in the room is that the walls are large, so they reflect the low bass frequencies. A small object can't do that.
I think a subwoofer or an equalizer would be better solutions if you want more deep bass.

lenjack
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Re: Proper Speaker Placement

Post by lenjack » 23 Feb 2019 01:56

For what it's worth, recheck the first response to this topic. Look up the original article.
R.F. Allison, "The Influence of Room Boundaries on Loudspeaker Power Output," J. Audio Eng. Soc., May 7, 1974

Or better yet, go to page 56 of the August, 1976 issue of Stereo Review at https://www.americanradiohistory.com/Ar ... 976-08.pdf

Sunwire
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Re: Proper Speaker Placement

Post by Sunwire » 23 Feb 2019 20:25

That's a great article.

I suspect that listener position is often ignored. I noticed a very large change in bass response by moving my seat a foot or two farther away from the rear wall.

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