Really Need Help

[Quercetin]

Hi,

I'm new here and found this place this morning after researching the turntable I was going to buy (Audio-Technica AT-LP240-USB), I say was because after reading this forum my mind was quickly changed.

I then continued browsing around looking for a turntable that fit my budget (£250), well to cut a long story short I have now just purchased a boxed technics SL-1210 MK2 which is sold by a DJ store and confirmed as fully working and comes with a years warranty.

This of course comes at a price and that is £399, I suspect I paid more than most would especially seeing as the same seller is selling another SL-1210 MK2 for £239.99 BUT that only has 90 days warranty and looks used (scratches) which is not something I want. The one I bought is described as in stunning condition. Lots of photos here: http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/160808556207

So I now have my first turntable coming but have no idea how to connect it to my audio interface (m-audio profire 610), I've read that I need a preamp but that's when I become stuck ( I don't even know what cables I need). Please can some one offer advice? The cheaper the better, especially after spending so much more than I planned on a turntable.


In case anyone is wondering, the reason I have the audio interface is due to my studio monitors (Adam A7X) which were purchased for my own experiments with music and to listen to loss less music.

[analogaudio]

The output cables of the Technics need to be plugged into a phono preamp, which is a small accessory box with two input connectors and two output connectors, all RCA phono type. Get a cable from somewhere like radioshack that has two RCA plugs on one end and whatever your soundcard/accessory wants on the other end (stereo minijack?), this cord can be any convenient length. Phono preamps start at about $50 and go up quickly, they don't need to be expensive to sound good, look at www.needledoctor.com for example.

[analogaudio]

PS, I have presumed the Technics comes with a MM/MI type cartridge installed, if none is included you need to get one of these also, start at $50 or so, I have heard people recommend an AudioTechnica AT120E as a good place to start.

[Quercetin]

Hi analogaudio,

Thank you for your response. Would I be right in thinking this would work?

Technics RCA cables into Behringers PP400 inputs and then use a 1/4" stereo jack to twin RCA phono lead with the twin RCAs plugged into the output of the Behringer PP400 and the 1/4" stereo jack plugged into my input on my audio interface.


Behringer PP400:



1/4" Stereo Jack to Twin RCA Phono Lead:



M-Audio Profire 610:



Regarding the cartridge I have no idea what type it is, the eBay listing states it comes with a brand new Stanton 505 V3 cartridge and needle.

If I were to purchase the above and the AudioTechnica AT120E cartridge would I be all set up to play and record vinyl? Also can you tell me how hard it is to change a cartridge for someone that knows nothing about turntables?

[Quercetin]

Hi analogaudio,

Thank you for your help. Since making this thread I have replied twice but for some strange reason I then get a message stating a moderator will need to accept the post, which it appears they haven't done.

My turntable has arrived and so has a preamp (Behringer PP400) and cables (1/4 stereo to twin RCA and 1/4 stereo to 1/4 stereo). After connecting the turntables cables to the Behringer PP400 input and then connecting both the 1/4 stereo to twin RCA and 1/4 stereo to 1/4 stereo (at separate times) to the 1/4 input on my audio interface, I hear very low and bad quality audio, the only program that shows a sign of the audio playing is the m audio mixer.

I then came up with the idea of plugging my sennheiser HD 25-C II headphones into the 1/4 output of the Behringer PP400, this resulted in extremely loud audio (no volume control on preamp), so loud I turned the turntable off through fear of damaging my headphones.

I then thought of another idea and this was plugging the RCA connections into my TV which worked perfectly. However, I still cannot get this result from plugging in either cable to the line ins on my audio interface. Does anyone have a rough idea as to what is causing this problem? Regarding the cartridge it came with a new Stanton 505 v3.

PS: when I connected the headphones to the preamp before playing a record there was a loud hum/buzz which went after I attached the ground cable to the preamp, I know the use of a ground cable but mentioned this as it does not happen when the preamp is connected to the audio interface.

I really hope this message goes through!

[Quercetin]

Finally I can post .

I've attached three images while playing a song in VLC media player (software) and playing a vinyl. The software return sections shows variations in peaks while the vinyl input ("Analog In: 3") shows a very low peak and little variation. Both have volume levels turned up to full.

[analogaudio]

the microphono 1/4 output is a stereo connection, it will work only with a similar 1/4 stereo connector on the M audio. Try using the microphono RCA output jacks with the M audio inputs.

[Quercetin]

Hi analogaudio,

Thank you for continuing to help.

I've tried plugging the twin RCA to 1/4 stereo cable into the m audios 1/4 input and the same thing happens (the m audio doesn't have RCA inputs).

The m audio interface instructions state:

6 inputs including:

2 XLR/TS combo jacks for mics or instrument level inputs
2 ¼” TRS balanced line inputs
stereo S/PDIF in

The cables I bought are: 6.3mm stereo jack plug to 2 x rca phono plugs and a 6.3mm TRS jack to 6.3mm TRS jack cable.

The audio interface mentions the TRS inputs being balanced but the TRS to TRS jack doesn't mention this on the wrapper or website, could this be causing the problem?

[Jim Leach]

6 inputs including:

2 XLR/TS combo jacks for mics or instrument level inputs
2 ¼” TRS balanced line inputs
stereo S/PDIF in

I would try left RCA out from phono pre to 1/4" (MONO) in to XLR/TS #1 and right RCA out from pono pre to XLR/TS #2. Adjust level down and bring up carefully.

Keep table grounded to phono pre.

The 1/4" TRS balanced lines are a stereo phono jack connection for a balanced signal (I HATE those). Usually a CHEAP mic cable will be XLR on the mic end and a 1/4"balanced jack on the other. You do not want to plug a stereo signal into this input , even though the jack physically fits (which is why I hate them).

Keep us posted...

[Quercetin]

Hi Jim,

When I first read your post I was confused as to how I could plug the 1/4 stereo jack into the XLR/TS input, I had always read XLR and then ignored the rest (despite it saying /TS combo). I tried what you suggested and it worked . I really cannot thank you enough as I never would have placed the jacks into those inputs . Thank you.


One thing which surprised me is that even with only one RCA connector plugged into the output of the preamp I am getting audio through both headphones. Am I right in thinking that this is due to the TRS connector being stereo and if I were to purchase two TS to RCA cables or even a TS to dual RCA cable this would rectify the above?

I would prefer to be able to control the volume of each headphone through m-audios mixer opposed to both being controlled.

Also can you tell me if it's alright to plug a preamp into an octane preamp (the combo inputs have octane preamps)? I wouldn't want to damage any equipment or affect audio quality.

M-Audio:

2 preamps with award-winning M-Audio Octane™ technology

phantom power
20dB pad on each preamp
signal/peak LED indicator lights


So far the audio sounds good and I'm sure with a little tweaking and a better cartridge I will get better results. I also have another question which I will save until another time as I feel it would be best to provide images and audio.

Thank you again Jim and analogaudio.

PS: I've attached two images, one shows the freeware program Spectro (http://spectro.enpts.com) showing a spectrogram of the recorded vinyl and the second shows M-Audios input levels and Audacity recording.

[Jim Leach]

Well, you're welcome but now I'm confused.

Each TRS input is a mono (although balanced) signal. (well, it SHOULD be) You cannot put a stereo signal into that input (well, you CAN obviously as the jack is technically a "stereo" 1/4 inch jack). A balanced audio signal is audio, but has a 'hot' or positive element (I call it the push) and a negative element (I call the pull). The third pin is sometimes connected to the cable shield, and sometimes not (and sometimes at one end but not the other). XLR connections are the equivalent to a holy war...

Anyway, the TRS jack wants either an XLR balanced signal OR a 1/4" stereo jack that is wired LIKE an XLR and NOT wired with a stereo signal. (again, this is why I hate, no, DESPISE these connections). The have one area where they are of value, and that is on the back of a fixed, large mixing console due to smaller footprint. Otherwise, I think they are horrible!

Now, you might be able to 'cheat' a bit if you take your RCA signal and attach it to the stereo jack as follows:

PIN of RCA to TIP of Stereo 1/4"
RING of RCA to center band of stereo 1/4"
DO NOT connect to shield (top band) of 1/4" stereo jack

I think that will work, but the signal will likely be low. Make sure the 'pad' is off with my suggested trial.

Finally, I would contact M-Audio to get there suggested connection schemes. They designed the damn thing, s they should be able to direct you to the best way to connect it.

[Jim Leach]

Looking at the M audio photo above it is listed as "mic/inst" for the TRS jacks, so I was wrong.

The mic is the XLR portion and inst SHOULD be a mono connection (such as electric guitar or bass), although it could be a switched mono connection that feels like a stereo connection.

Again I say I HATE these things because they are so confusing but I think a cable from the table RCA to a mono 1/4 inch jack in each TRS in should work for you.

[Hanuman]

Looking at the M audio photo above it is listed as "mic/inst" for the TRS jacks, so I was wrong.

It actually says: "XLR/TS" not "TRS" so I'm guessing the quarter-inch part of the combo is just a regular mono connection.

About the output from both cans when only one channel is connected, I notice that your pan-pots on "Analog In" channels 1&2 and both centred. Am I reading this right? If so then that would explain it - send Ch.1 full left and Ch.2 full right.

[Jim Leach]

About the output from both cans when only one channel is connected, I notice that your pan-pots on "Analog In" channels 1&2 and both centred. Am I reading this right? If so then that would explain it - send Ch.1 full left and Ch.2 full right.

^^^ Yeah, that would do it!

I did not catch that...