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TecnoDec/RB250/TW + Nagaoka

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TecnoDec/RB250/TW + Nagaoka

Postby Cyreg » 12 Dec 2011 14:04

Hi, first topic in the new Michell subforum :)

This week I will (I hope) get my new TecnoDec with Recordclamp and UniCover.
Also with the RB250/TecnoWeight/VTAadj/Fingernut.
I am going to try the Nagaoka MP110 and MP100(needle)on it.
Very excited about my new experience with the adjustment possibilities :wink:

I am coming from a Rega P5/PSU/Elys2 and used Rega TT's/carts for 30 years =D>

I took a serious look at OriginLive, but got some bad comments/answers. :cry:
Mostly on hardwarequality, to much model/type instability and bad communication.

So.........any experience/advice on placement/underground :?:
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Re: TecnoDec/RB250/TW + Nagaoka

Postby Guest » 13 Dec 2011 01:10

Cyreg,
If I may ask why did you change from the Rega p5?
I like the Michell TecnoDec too. I don't like the RB 250 buit that is Michell's 250arm.
Sometimes I feel I need a change too. Can't leave well enough alone. #-o

D
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Re: TecnoDec/RB250/TW + Nagaoka

Postby Cyreg » 13 Dec 2011 11:29

Sold my Rega P5setup a month ago for good price, awaiting the new RP6 :wink:
I deliberately always used Rega/Carts in standard configs; thought that OK :o

Went looking around and ended with Michell(RB250/TecnoWeight less good as RB700!)
And as I said before > I feel it will probably just be a sidestep.
Think I just want something else, with some VTA adjustment and other carts =D>

Who knows, maybe in a year I 'll end up with a Rega RP3/Bias2? Hope not :oops:

Also see:
viewtopic.php?f=32&t=41574&start=15
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Re: TecnoDec/RB250/TW + Nagaoka

Postby Guest » 13 Dec 2011 20:19

Aha, understood, I get the bug too. I had mine on sale too like for 3 days. I pulled it because it sounded too damn good! I also have a lot of $$ sunk into mine. Just to have something different I totally understand.
I was looking at a Roksan Radius 5 but it was not the 5.2 version so I passed on it.

We're all nuts of course.
ENJOY!
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Re: TecnoDec/RB250/TW + Nagaoka

Postby Cyreg » 14 Dec 2011 14:01

Nuts, yeah, well a little bit maybe :wink:

Coming friday the gear will be setup by a hired TT specialist at my home :)
Think I could have managed on my own, but probably better so :!:

Hope I get a good sound out of this combo Michell/Rega/Nagaoka [-o<
And I love jazzy rock music, so should be OK than.

I'll let you know and also how it differs from my earlier P5 setup.
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Re: TecnoDec > how much oil?

Postby Cyreg » 15 Dec 2011 20:05

Some Q's?

Is the speed adjustable and if so how?

Looks like it's a rebadged RB250 by Michell?
With a Michell-sticker and also metalcoloured threaded armbase instead of coppercoloured?(like RB300)

In the Michell instuctions it says: quote
"Pour oil provided into the aluminium spindle well to a depth of approx. 2mm"
Donot know exactly what that means > for me can mean 2 things, so....

...does this mean fill only 2mm from the bottom up or....
...almost fill it up all the way till 2mm from the top down?

Please??
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Re: TecnoDec/RB250/TW + Nagaoka

Postby markcass » 16 Dec 2011 00:03

Hi

My understanding is that the speed is not adjustable.

Michell have often supplied rebadged RB250 arms, just as other manufacturers have done. Apart from the name on the badge, they're identical to the ones marked "Rega". I have two on different decks, a "Nottingham Analogue Studio" RB250 and a "Heybrook RA20" (aka RB250). It's somewhat rarer to find an RB250 with the stainless steel arm base instead of the normal brass one, though I believe Michell's tuned-up Tecnoarm version has this in any case.

The Michell instructions surely mean "pour oil in until it forms a pool 2 mm deep." It won't do any harm to fill it to within 2 mm of the top, except that you'll end up with oil everywhere when you put the bearing together!

HTH

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Re: TecnoDec/RB250/TW + Nagaoka

Postby Werner » 16 Dec 2011 13:20

markcass wrote:My understanding is that the speed is not adjustable.


It is a brushed DC motor, so it has to be adjustable.
And it is. There is a multiturn potmeter in the power supply.
I don't remember if it is accessible through a tiny hole in the
supply's housing. If not you have to open it up, which potentially
exposes mains voltage.

If speed is to be adjusted then do so after warming up a while.

Michell have often supplied rebadged RB250 arms


In their particular case even more RB300s. For a long while Michell were the only TT manufacturer Rega allowed to directly install OEM RB300s on their turntables such as the Mycro.

Not that this matters.
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Re: TecnoDec/RB250/TW + Nagaoka

Postby Cyreg » 16 Dec 2011 19:06

Markcass, Werner thanks for reacting.

It's setup and running now as I write. =D>

Sounds OK I think, clean and detailed, very different from Rega (last 30 years)
No hum and little noise at max volume, never knew that could be done!
I myself will have to run in my brain too, I suppose :)

Indeed I can see a small hole in the PS at the side of the motorconnector.
I can see a little screwable potmeter inside, so probably what you say Werner.
First I'll let it all run in for a few weeks and look at speed after that.
But nothing is said in the Michell instructions nowhere, so probably... :wink:

With or without RecordClamp is a big difference and coming from Rega I rather like it without(more lively), but that will probably change too in due time #-o
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Re: TecnoDec/RB250/TW + Nagaoka

Postby Cyreg » 17 Dec 2011 14:34

OK one day further so >

It was setup by the dealer and sounded OK from start. :)
Sure I have to get used to the sound and it will need a few hours more to run in.
Its sound was very clear and uncluttered(bettering Rega) from the beginning.

But what I missed (obvious compared to my Rega P5setup) was a bit of warmth, depth, getting involved; sounding too clean, too much "hifi?" to me. :?:

But now that's much better after a simple but important adjustment.
OK I knew from own experience and reading that Rega arms (and almost everything mechanical on TT's) are very sensitive to how strongly they are bolted up to the frame.

So I unlocked (with some force!) the Michell Fingernut and readjusted it as should be done > a fingertight connection =D>


What I don't understand is why my arm VTAadj. with the MP110 (being 18mm high)...
...must be adjusted to the lowest possible position.
Is that a sort of normalised height?
I couldn't get a Rega cart on it, if I wanted; that arm is 4mm too high than #-o
I guess that is strange and maybe not correct as standard from Michell :idea:
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Re: TecnoDec/RB250/TW + Nagaoka

Postby Guest » 17 Dec 2011 23:20

My Dyna 10X5 is 18mm and it is always set to be level in the arm.
Is yours level? Use a lined 3X5 Card and check at the headshell area if level.
If not the so called expert did a crap job.
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Re: TecnoDec/RB250/TW + Nagaoka

Postby Cyreg » 18 Dec 2011 12:26

Probably the story is not clear enough written by me, sorry. :oops:

The whole Michell/arm/MP110 was setup OK with the cart upperside > horizontal.

But in this OK situation the VTAadjuster itself, sits at its lowest possible arm position. :o
(So with the MP110, itself physically being 18mm high from upperside to needlepoint)

That means any lower profiled cart cannot be VTAadjusted in this setup :cry:
If you take Rega carts as an example > those are only 14mm high.

And that's something Michell should not be OK with, I feel.
Remember the only possible(=Rega) armboard is already mounted as standard :!:

Or am I wrong? Any comment on that please :?:
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Re: TecnoDec/RB250/TW + Nagaoka

Postby Werner » 19 Dec 2011 07:56

Cyreg wrote:And that's something Michell should not be OK with, I feel.


The Rega arms were never designed with VTA adjustability in mind. As a result any after-market VTA adjuster, not just Michell's, has to push up the arm somewhat, thereby reducing the range of cartridges that can be used with the adjuster in place. If you have a low cartridge then dispense with the adjuster and use it as Rega intended ( :twisted: ).
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Re: TecnoDec/RB250/TW + Nagaoka

Postby Cyreg » 19 Dec 2011 14:10

Hello Werner, thanks for reacting.
I read a lot of your knowledgeable posts the last few days. :)

But the TecnoDec has been made (given the only possible "Rega" armboard!) specificaly for the Rega(like) arms to be used on it!
So probably for Rega carts it would be fine with no VTA adjuster in use :?:
But take a Denon103 = 15mm as another example for lower carts :!:

Than why sell VTA adjusters specially made for these Rega arms, if in combination with this standard! TecnoDec armboard, carts lower than 18mm can't be adjusted?
And for that matter also no playroom at all for the many 18mm height carts to try adjusting for a better sound.

Possible solution:
- standard TecnoDec board machined 4mm lower at armbase
- standard 4mm good quality shim provided with every board (for Reganorm)
- optional VTA adjuster as is now; when in use > remove 4mm shim first

Well it is a pity that I have a VTAadjuster now(MP110) with little to adjust :(
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Re: TecnoDec/Michell250/TW + Nagaoka

Postby Cyreg » 20 Dec 2011 17:41

OK VTA adjuster appeared to be stuck near the armbase because of a bad thread on arm or VTAadj. :oops:
Maybe small quality issue for Michell :?:

I dismantled the arm from the armboard and took care, with some force, that everything rotated smoothly enough again.

Adjusting too high > no warmth or depth, very clean, no live, no decay
Adjusting too low > warm full sound, no attack, not clear, bad details

So truth (best sound) somewhere in between, (almost) there I think =D>

And indeed the Michell250 arm is not just a Rega RB250 with badge :?
It has the stainless steel threaded-armbase/horizontal-bearinghouse from the RB300, instead of the brass one from the standard RB250.
So that seems good thinking from Michell; maybe brass is too soft and is not good enough(damage?) for many VTAadjusts :?:
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