My Systemdek IV

[surreysaintee]

I have a Dunlop Systemdek IV that I bought from a mate in 1984. I recall him mentioning that it was built by an engineer at the Dunlop factory for a mate (it was probably built 1980'ish), and apparently was better than a normal Systemdek IV; it's got an audio technica AT1120 arm.

The original moving coil cartridge (a Goldring maybe?) broke and I replaced it with a cheap Ortofon moving magnet cartridge as I couldn't afford an equivalent replacement at the time.

Anyway. This TT has sat in my loft doing nothing for 16yrs and I'd rather like to start listening to some of my vinyl again. Is it worth getting this serviced and back into running order? I have no idea whether it is/was really any good - even though my mate said it was - as I had (and still have) a budget 1980s amp and budget 1990s speakers.

So what to do? And as far as cartridge and the existing stuff. Also...what to do? All and any advice please welcome.

thanks in advance

surreysaintee

[markcass]

Hi

The history of the deck seems odd, since I don't think the Systemdek IV existed in 1980. The Systemdek III that it replaced was developed from the original late-70s Systemdek and relied on springs in compression for the suspension. The lower cost Systemdek II was a development of that in a 'skeleton' plinth, and I bought one of those in 1983. The manual covered both decks.

The IV followed on from the IIX (springs operating in tension) and related models, and the IIX came in around 1984 or so. I uploaded a couple of brochures some time ago, showing both the early and later ranges.

None of this really matters, as these are excellent decks in any case. Whichever top-of-the range Systemdek you have, it's still well worth servicing and bringing back into use . Furthermore, apart from the electronic power supply, which sometimes gave trouble, there is little that generally goes wrong. New belts are readily available and are the main item that needs replacement. I ran my Systemdek II for about 20 years, and it's still in use with someone else.

The AT1120 is a low-mass arm better suited to higher compliance moving-magnet cartridges than moving-coils. In practice, most of the MM cartridges currently made are aimed at medium-mass arms such as the ubiquitous Rega design, which has about double the effective mass of the AT1120. However, given that the deck has spring suspension, the lower mass of the arm should aid stability and resistance to footfall.

Depending on budget, you have many choices among MM cartridges. An Audio Technica model like the AT440MLa should work well, though some find it a bit bright. The long-established Goldring 1042 is perfectly happy in Rega and Linn medium-mass arms, but is not desperately fussy, based on my experience of it. It's quite expensive these days, however. The low mass of the arm also means that slightly heavier cartridges, like the Ortofon 2M models or some of the Nagaokas, could potentially be accommodated, though they are also rather bulky and might not fit in the headshell.

HTH

Mark

[surreysaintee]

Hi Mark

Thanks for the advice. You are in Surrey - so am I (as you might deduce from my posting name)! Advice on best place to take it for a servicing? I'm not too far from Guildford and was planning to take it to PJ HiFi in Guildford as I spoke to a guy there a few weeks ago and he was very helpful.

I bought it in 1984 maybe 1985 (that's what time does). My TT may have been built 1982/83 - and may have been a prototype of the Systemdek IV. I'll take some pics and post them here.

My buddy and his mate were TT freaks back then - I think my mate sold me the Systemdek and replaced it with a Pink Triangle (well is was triangular - whether it was a PT or not I'm not sure).

My amp is an old late 1970s Rotel Receiver. Is there any point in getting my Systemdek serviced if I don't upgrade my amp? And my speakers (pretty cheap Tannoys)

regards

SS

Found this picture in the Gallery - it looks very much like the pink one in the main picture - it's almost identical except it is brown.

gallery/image_page.php?album_id=80&image_id=13735

[markcass]

Hi

I think PJ sound like the right people to help you with the deck; it's a good sign that they seem helpful already, and they are local to you. Infidelity in Hampton Wick is the main alternative that comes to mind.

You could well be right that it's a Systemdek IV prototype underneath. The model you've linked to in the Library was member Blue Angel's repainted Systemdek III. It sounds as though yours is in the original brown Nextel. However, at one stage the firm was producing the Systemdek II I used to have with the newer IIX's suspension and chassis inside, so there may have been a few of these hybrids around.

You could well find that your old Rotel receiver has quite a good phono input, since this would have been the principal source at the time it was made. My Systemdek was originally connected to a Rotel integrated amp from slightly later (1983) with good results.

Overall, you might be surprised what your old receiver and speakers can do when fed by the updated Systemdek! By the way, it would be worth checking with PJ to see whether it has the Systemdek III slightly concave platter, since you really need to use this with a record clamp to ensure contact between the LP and the platter. I believe the deck originally came with a metal spring-loaded clamp (I bought the cheaper plastic version as an accessory for my deck), but something like a Michell clamp would do perfectly well as a substitute.

Mark

[surreysaintee]

Hi Mark - thanks again. I got a heavy rubber mat and a metal G.B. Record clamp with it (both of which I still have). I recall a significant improvement when I unplugged my Pioneer PL-112D (which I still have) and plugged in my Systemdek.

btw - what do you mean by 'Nextel'?

Anyway - from what you say, getting my TT revamped would be a good investment. Out of interest what do equivalent quality TTs cost these days? I have absolutely no idea. I guess my PL-112D is only worthy of the skip?

Hugh

[markcass]

Hi Hugh

An equivalent to your deck would cost at least £1200 these days, plus the cost of an arm (I'm thinking along the lines of the Michell Gyrodec SE for this comparison). The Systemdek was originally a competitor for the Linn LP12, but even the basic version of that is now well over £2000.

Nextel was the brand name of a "suede-effect" paint finish, quite popular in the 70s. Some other hi fi equipment also used it.

The PL112D was the successor to the famous PL12D, but generally considered not quite as good. If it still works, however, it would be worth offering it on Ebay (or maybe Freecycle?) to give someone else a cheap way into vinyl.

Mark

[surreysaintee]

Hi Mark

Yes Nextel - brown suede-like finish - that's the stuff. As far as cost of an equivalent - kind of surprising - but as I paid £200 for it back in 1984/85 I guess it would.

And actually it's a Pioneer PL-12D I've got. It was a pretty good budget deck in it's time if I recall.


cheers

[markcass]

Hi Mark

Yes Nextel - brown suede-like finish - that's the stuff. As far as cost of an equivalent - kind of surprising - but as I paid £200 for it back in 1984/85 I guess it would.

And actually it's a Pioneer PL-12D I've got. It was a pretty good budget deck in it's time if I recall.


cheers

Hi Hugh

£200 sounds a pretty good price. My Systemdek II (the budget model at the time) cost £115, or £161 with the Linn Basik LVV, the combination I had.

The PL-12D is still quite popular as a cheap, second-hand starter deck, as are some of its contemporaries. After all, decent budget decks from Rega or Pro-ject cost £200 or so new.

Mark

[surreysaintee]

Thanks Mark - I won't just chuck my Pioneer then - maybe get £20 for it.

For you interest I'll still post a picture of my deck - I know how it is when you are interested in 'vintage' models/issues of things. PJ HiFi suggested in the order of £100-£150 to service and setup. If I go new cartridge as you have suggested - another £150 - so maybe £300 toget going. But it sounds like I'd then have myself a pretty darn good 'back-end' for my vinyl. As used to be said and I'm sure still the same today - what isn't picked up from the groove can't be improved by an amp and speakers.

btw - I got a pre-amp (with gold jacks) with the deck as the original cartridge required this. Will the cartridges you have suggested need me to use this pre-amp (can you tell that I am not exactly a hi-fi buff? and seriously out of touch). If so I guess I'll have to have this checked as well - though it should be OK?

Hugh

[markcass]

Hi Hugh

The pre-amp required for the original moving-coil cartridge is most likely a device to convert a moving-magnet input for moving-coil. It boosts the output voltage approximately 10 times to moving-magnet level. As the MM cartridges we've been discussing already have sufficient output, there is no need to use this device. It would just cause problems if you did.

Mark

[peanuts]

Hi - have just stripped/refurbished/serviced a Systemdek Transcription myself - the original design and if it is any help you are welcome to see what has been refurbished so far - I live Across Surrey/Hants border Farnham/Aldershot - best regards.

[surreysaintee]

Eventually got around to getting it into PJ HiFi in Guildford so now just waiting to hear what it'll cost me to service/refurb my Systemdek.

[surreysaintee]

Hi - have just stripped/refurbished/serviced a Systemdek Transcription myself - the original design and if it is any help you are welcome to see what has been refurbished so far - I live Across Surrey/Hants border Farnham/Aldershot - best regards.

Curiously enough I live in Farnham

[surreysaintee]

Well I've got my Systemdek refurbished (it's a III I think not a IV) and it's up and running.

Have a slight issue in that the original output lead was knacked and I have another non-systemdek lead. It's a little loose and the LH chennel sometimes starts to 'break up' a bit as it lossens can I get a Systemdek replacement or equivalent that will fit properly). Also there seems to be a bit of a delay after switching on before the platter actually starts going round. Anyway - I'll speak with the shop about these things - and at long last a picture.