Can PVC record sleeves damage vinyl?

[Tako]

The mould/fungus idea is also plausible: There is a mould that grows on, and destroys CD's in certain climates. http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/science/nature/1402533.stm

I checked a bunch of classical records that I bought at a flea market a couple of years ago and were all signed and dated by the original owner, these date from around 1961 to 1970, and all have original PVC outer sleeves (as far as i can tell/smell), yet sitting in them for up to 50 years seems not to have affected them at all. I would also like to mention that I have purchased second hand LP's with the PVC outer sleeve completely yellow and brittle, indicating that most of the plasticizers had probably evaporated, but with the records inside them completely unaffected.
Maybe under regular circumstances the PVC gives off its toxic fumes so slowly that it will never reach concentrations high enough to damage the record, but excessive heat will speed up the process and cause higher concentrations of the nasty stuff to build up?

[Tako]

I did some more research in my own collection and have actually found several LP's that appear to have been affected by the dreaded "misting" effect. After checking dozens of records I first noticed it on my black copy of Porcupine Tree's "Moonloop" (I also own a white one, but it's probably much harder to spot on that), these originally came in a purple PVC inner sleeve , packed in a mylar resealable outer sleeve. I put the record in a Nagaoka 102 poly inner after purchase, and stored that in the mylar outer sleave, together with the original purple PVC sleeve.
The record has a vague but noticeable "spotty" appearance, with a hazy line pattern radiating all over the disc. The sounds is not affected by it at this point, so it is not clear if the "damage"occured after I repackaged it, or during the time it was in direct contact with the PVC inner sleeve. I bought the record at a gig, so it could very well have been stored this way for quite some time.
A few things I noticed about the purple inner sleeve:
It seems a lot softer than the "regular" PVC outer sleeves, and while it smells similar, the "PVC smell" on the purple sleeve is A LOT stronger than most of those clear outer sleeves.
With this in mind I immediately thought of those "Simply vinyl" outer sleeves (with the flap and the round sticker to keep them closed), which are also a lot softer than other outer sleeves, so I decided to check those next.
When pulling the first "Simply vinyl" release from my shelves, I was greeted by the same smell that the purpe "moonloop" sleeve had, but found no "misting" on the disc, but further inspection revealed that one of my older "Simply vinyl" releases: Metallica's "Black album" had actually been affected. (Again only visually, there's no hiss)
I have also found several other records with a slight, purely visible misting effect in other situations where they were originally packaged with the soft, almost rubbery PVC as an INNER sleeve, the Metallica album appears to be the only album that was affected right through a cardboard gatefold and a poly lined inner sleeve, but I have noticed that that distinct PVC smell actually carries over to albums (not just the sleeves) standing next to the ones packed in them.
I also found that quite a few of those softer PVC sleeves had stuck to the cardboard gatefolds and were actually pretty hard to remove without damaging anything.

While my experience with this "misting" effect is still very limited compared to the less fortunate people in this thread (Thankfully no audible damage yet), I have decided to get rid of all the PVC on my record shelves. I spent the afternoon getting ALL of my albums out of their PVC outer sleeves, and looking for alternatives for those that came in PVC inner sleeves. Maybe I am overreacting, but at this point I'd rather be safe than sorry. Since i only own a few 100 records I'll probably invest in some "poly" outers in the near future, but for the time being i'll keep them "naked".

[megatrends]

I own some plastic sleeved vinyl that indeed left residue permanently in the grooves usually on the outer edge of the record for about 20 seconds of time worth into the first track and not uniformly over the entire circumference. Usually where it made contact closer to the outside of the sleeve nearest the elements of the room temp etc. many heavy metal album labels like Metalblade Recs and Enigma used plastic sleeves in the 80s and they suck. I have replaced all of them I own because of damage.

I replace plastic sleeves as I find them with paper. Went through my dad's records a couple of weeks ago as he passed away in January and his records were all paper sleeved and all were 40 to 60 years old and all looked great.

I'll add that I have never used PVC outer jacketing on any of my records and all of my records are in fantastic shape. Obviously the cardboard sleeves are showing wear which the PVC sleeve is supposed to prevent but you can't have it all I guess.

I have some record sleeves where the cardboard paper just dissolved from age lol. My Jimi Hendrix Movie soundtrack comes to mind.

[dja69]

A few years ago I've looked into most of my 45's & LP's which I haven't played in years thanks to the invention of CD's and I've notice the one's in plastic outer sleeves damaged the records with the acid (cloudy affect)it created on the vinyl from these sleeves. I ended up throwing these records away which included a rare Jackson 5 LP as they were just unplayable. Also thrown away the plastic outer sleeves as well.

The records without any plastic outer sleeves are in great shape and some had paper and plastic inner sleeves.

My advice is if you have records in these PVC sleeves I would check on these at least every 3 months or even once a month just to be safe there are no signs of sweat (acid) which can dry up on the vinyl to become unplayable and worthless. If you have any EP's or LP's which have the laminated flip-back jackets as most UK records were issued this way doesn't require the plastic outer sleeve.

Also DO NOT USE ANY ANTISTATIC RECORD CLEANER especially if you're going to place the record back into a PVC outer sleeve. My recommendation is use Record Revirginizer or a moist cloth to clean you're records. If you own EP's & LP's which have the laminated flip-back jackets as most UK records were issued this way, doesn't require the plastic outer sleeves.

[pivot]

Are we talking PVC as an issue OR all plastic. All Poly Vinyl Cloride, PVC, is plastic but not all plastic is PVC.

Have been using polyethylene inners and polypropylene outer, most recently MoFi and Sleeve City, and see/hear no issues.

[kelvinMunson]

Paper inners are not a great idea, as they will always leave material on the vinyl. I have been using polythene inners since 1969 and have had no issues.

[jake]

If you just play all your records regularly, you are airing them out and should be fine. If you just store them for 10 years, then the plastic, which has a slight charge, will attract and trap any moisture it can find and congeal. 10 years in the garage or basement and you could be asking for trouble.
I saw a collection of 50,000 records all dull colored vinyl like that. They had been stored in a barn, under a tarp. What a waste - 50,000 records could open 3 or 4 record shops.

[dja69]

If you just play all your records regularly, you are airing them out and should be fine. If you just store them for 10 years, then the plastic, which has a slight charge, will attract and trap any moisture it can find and congeal. 10 years in the garage or basement and you could be asking for trouble.
I saw a collection of 50,000 records all dull colored vinyl like that. They had been stored in a barn, under a tarp. What a waste - 50,000 records could open 3 or 4 record shops.

50,000 records! Makes me cry when I hear stories like that. Suppose all of them had to be thrown away i guess.

[dja69]

A few years ago I've looked into most of my 45's & LP's which I haven't played in years thanks to the invention of CD's and I've notice the one's in plastic outer sleeves damaged the records with the acid (cloudy affect)it created on the vinyl from these sleeves. I ended up throwing these records away which included a rare Jackson 5 LP as they were just unplayable. Also thrown away the plastic outer sleeves as well.

The records without any plastic outer sleeves are in great shape and some had paper and plastic inner sleeves.

My advice is if you have records in these PVC sleeves I would check on these at least every 3 months or even once a month just to be safe there are no signs of sweat (acid) which can dry up on the vinyl to become unplayable and worthless. If you have any EP's or LP's which have the laminated flip-back jackets as most UK records were issued this way doesn't require the plastic outer sleeve.

Also DO NOT USE ANY ANTISTATIC RECORD CLEANER especially if you're going to place the record back into a PVC outer sleeve. My recommendation is use Record Revirginizer or a moist cloth to clean you're records. If you own EP's & LP's which have the laminated flip-back jackets as most UK records were issued this way, doesn't require the plastic outer sleeves.

I meant to say the thick PVC sleeves.

[maclen]

I've had several records damaged with the dull surface effect (light or very heavy), many 45's and LP's stored in plastic sleeves (PVC, I guess). Here in Italy they were called "crystal" sleeves and in the early-mid 80's that type was common to find in record shops.

No record in my collection that was stored "naked" (no sleeve at all) experienced dulling except when in direct contact with a bloody "crystal" sleeve that "protected" a record next to it.

No japanese record stored in "crystal" sleeves had any damage, I guess that's because they have rice paper inner sleeves (not common paper ones) and the cardboard covers are heavier.

There is one type of sleeve that never caused any harm; unfortunately I never saw them again for sale. They are the heaviest kind in my collection, I used to buy them in the late 80's - very early 90's...I have hundreds of them so I guess that makes a good sample for safe storage.

I'll take pics of both the treacherous and the friendly sleeves as soon as I can...

[Mike-h]

Since rediscovering vinyl, about 18 months ago, I have been going through a process of cleaning and repackaging my records. I clean the records in batches, usually a mixture of existing LPs and fresh purchases, using the ‘Disc Doc’ products. Once cleaned and thoroughly dried they are placed in new two ply inners (thin film inside paper) purchased from the same supplier, then the album is placed in a new outer sleeve described as ‘450 gauge polythene record sleeves’ by the seller, these are a soft sleeve.

On reading this thread I went to my collection and sorted through the ones yet to be processed, about 30% were in the stiffer PVC type of sleeve. I assume the PVC ones are the thicker, stiffer type of sleeve. These showed varying degrees of ‘blistering’, some had no signs at all, whilst about 10% of the PVC stored ones were quite badly blistered. Luckily only two albums showed slight signs of the misting, as someone else mentions this was in the run off area. All PVC outers have now been removed, and will be replaced in due course. Even when my TT was consigned to the loft for 15 years or so, my albums were always kept within the living area of the house, never in garages, lofts or basements.

I have come across one badly affected album, back when I first started this process, which was stored in an old two ply inner, which I presume it came in when bought new, I can’t remember what type of outer it was in. at the time I concluded that this album may have been put away damp years earlier, I used to clean my albums after playing; with a cloth dampened with cleaning fluid, if that play had shown signs of surface noise. I would hypothesize that dampness is the main culprit in this problem, particularly with PVC in the mix.

[megatrends]

After reading this thread I am almost glad I never bothered using clear sleeves for my record sleeves. I have been buying poly sleeves though and using them after reading in here.

Good stuff, I feel badly for anyone who has had their vinyl damaged.

[jake]

Per latest copy of Record Collector, the "misting" typs of cloudy pressing was often caused by the factory, placing them in the sleeve when the vinyl was still too warm. Some labels, like Polydor, were notorious. This kind of means if your records are stored in a warm place, you may have to take steps, like airing them out.

[comas]

I, too live in Australia where many of the other posters with the vinyl misting problem live. I have about 20,000 records in my collection and have sold on probably 40,000. About 95% were bought second hand, often as whole collections. I have sifted through probably hundreds of thousands more records.
I first noticed the PVC indelible misting disease in record collections about 15 years ago. It makes my skin crawl when I come across vinyl that has been stored in PVC outer sleeves. It does seem to be storage condition dependent, but if left for long enough in PVC sleeves in the wrong conditions ie. warm place and possibly undisturbed , the misting disease will set in. Some records will be affected quicker than others (some cardboard sleeves are thicker than others, Australian 12" singles often have very thin or papery sleeves and inner sleeves vary too, 7" sleeves were often really thin too). Also the vinyl itself in records is not all exactly the same. The worst cases happen when a record is left in direct contact with a PVC sleeve, such as the way most picture discs and some coloured vinyl records were sold. I hear people complain all the time about poor sound quality from picture discs. Well, blame the PVC sleeve because they sound fine if you throw away the PVC sleeve when the record is new and keep the record in a cardboard sleeve. Most sticker labels can be gently lifted off the PVC and transferred onto the cardboard one. I can hear purists decrying that it takes away from the originality of the packaging. Well, I'd rather have a picture disc which I can play after a few years and isn't defaced with the misty appearance.
This has become a bit of a rant but I have seen too many collections damaged in PVC outer sleeves. Throw those PVC sleeves in the bin! People are fastidious about their equipment and needles yet still balk at acting on one of the biggest destroyers of vinyl of all.
Polyethylene is a totally different plastic and shows no signs of affecting vinyl. Mylar is the most inert of all.
PVC sleeves are usually crystal clear and soft-flexible becoming brittler with age and very common during the 80's and 90's. The "Central Station" sleeves in Australia are a common example. Some new discs, particularly picture discs, are still sold with PVC sleeves. Most of the duller outer protective sleeves sold in the 70's aren't PVC and don't cause the misty effect, though a second hand record could have had a PVC one put on later. I've never seen PVC used in an inner sleeve from any country. Shrink wrap is not PVC either.
Mould caused from plastic sleeves is a whole different problem and quite different in appearance. It appears in spots and can be washed off, though it will leave some crackle in the sound after washing.
PVC affected vinyl has a dull moiré appearance when severe. When it is severe the record will have an intolerable phshsh sound as background. Sometimes when the appearance is light, the sound is mild and tolerable and sometimes there can be background noise without much visible but the record was stored in a PVC sleeve.
I hope this helps someone.