Cleaning Vinyl (Again!)- An Interesting Method

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circularvibes
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Re: Cleaning Vinyl (Again!)- An Interesting Method

Post by circularvibes » 16 Sep 2019 19:44

Dagfinn, I like your idea. I would likely use goat hair or nylon artist brushes but the prototype otherwise looks affordable and very capable of doing a good job. It could also be adapted for different size records very easily. Thanks for sharing your idea.

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Re: Cleaning Vinyl (Again!)- An Interesting Method

Post by dagfinn » 16 Sep 2019 21:54

Thank you, happy to share :). Easy to make and cheap. It works well, I regularly have to clean the holes for "lint" and never have to stop to remove dust from my stylus. I'm connecting it to my regular house vacuum, but I may look for a smaller and less noisy one dedicated to the job. Perhaps next version will have a longer silicon hose so I can hide the vacuum and shorten the regular hose.

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Re: Cleaning Vinyl (Again!)- An Interesting Method

Post by ravelax » 17 Sep 2019 20:55

That's a brilliant contraption! I think I'll go make one myself!

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Re: Cleaning Vinyl (Again!)- An Interesting Method

Post by mvno_subscriber » 18 Sep 2019 14:58

I find this thread very interesting. I use a combination of ultrasound (Vinyl Cleaner Pro) and a Knosti. I always end my cleanings by applying a coat of fresh Knosti-fluid in order to get an anti static coating, and never thought it left any unwanted residue. However, I've also noticed I needed to play the records a time or two after cleaning before they sounded their best.

Quats are hard to come by where I live, so I'm not sure what to use if not the Knosti fluid for anti static treatment. I've tried making something close to vince1's super formula by using a premade dilution of Triton X100 combined with isopropyl alcohol (2-4%), but in the ultrasound cleaner foaming is an issue. I've also swapped the X100 mix with a capful of SpinClean fluid+IPA due to laziness (plus it doesn't foam as much).

I buy a lot of really dirty records, and often the US cleaning isn't enough - so Knosti + a nail brush and prayers tend to be necessary. But I digress... it's a fun hobby :)

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Re: Cleaning Vinyl (Again!)- An Interesting Method

Post by chgc » 18 Sep 2019 15:23

I am coming to the conclusion that playing the record is the final stage of the cleaning process. It seems that many of the records I remember as having a lot of pops and clicks, are quiet now that I have played them a few times. The fact that I switch carts and turntables makes me less than certain.

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Re: Cleaning Vinyl (Again!)- An Interesting Method

Post by mvno_subscriber » 18 Sep 2019 15:58

I can definitely attest to this. Makes sense that the stylus, which actually get into the groove, is able to scrape loose debris.

However, I don't have a vacuum RCM and I suspect the way I clean don't necessarily dissolve stuff as well as other methods.

If I look on a typical old, dirty record using high magnification, I typically see a lot of white stuff in the grooves (I've attached an example). Normal cleaning removes some, a nail brush removed more, and playing multiple times help. But I guess soaking and vacuuming would perhaps be the missing part here.

Anyone knows what the white stuff is, btw? It seems pretty universal.
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Re: Cleaning Vinyl (Again!)- An Interesting Method

Post by cafe latte » 18 Sep 2019 22:20

mvno_subscriber wrote:
18 Sep 2019 15:58
I can definitely attest to this. Makes sense that the stylus, which actually get into the groove, is able to scrape loose debris.

However, I don't have a vacuum RCM and I suspect the way I clean don't necessarily dissolve stuff as well as other methods.

If I look on a typical old, dirty record using high magnification, I typically see a lot of white stuff in the grooves (I've attached an example). Normal cleaning removes some, a nail brush removed more, and playing multiple times help. But I guess soaking and vacuuming would perhaps be the missing part here.

Anyone knows what the white stuff is, btw? It seems pretty universal.
Mold?

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Re: Cleaning Vinyl (Again!)- An Interesting Method

Post by GuidoK » 19 Sep 2019 00:54

ROY_H wrote:
05 Sep 2019 20:36

<5% Non-ionic and amphoteric detergents, Benzalkonium chloride.
Recognise those from previous cleaning discussions? Especially the quat content?

I believe the fluff on first play is being released because of the neutralisation of the charge by the quat.
Don't you think the fluff is the benzalkoniumcloride that is left behind? Scraped of the groove walls as the stylus passes by?
It's a hygroscopic powder that can also manifest itself as almost a gelatinous consistency.
Great for removing fungi though.

I wonder if the knosti solution (famous for its 'knostifluff') uses the same family of chemicals as wetting agent.
(knostifluff is not a fiberous fluff coming from a towel or such, its a chemical residue)

BTW everything that leaves a fluff behind is a no go imho. As with knostifluff, if you leave it on and keep playing with it, it can develop in very sticky gunk sometimes difficult to remove without the use of solvents, and I don't like to use solvents on my stylus tip.

I myself use tetramethyldecynediol as a wetting agent in my cleaning brew (33% ipa, 66% demineralized water and 1-5ml/L wetting agent).

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Re: Cleaning Vinyl (Again!)- An Interesting Method

Post by chgc » 19 Sep 2019 01:34

I don’t know what that white stuff is, but I find the ultrasonic cleaner does a pretty good job with mostly water and a little alcohol and surfactant.
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Re: Cleaning Vinyl (Again!)- An Interesting Method

Post by mvno_subscriber » 19 Sep 2019 08:37

chgc wrote:
19 Sep 2019 01:34
I don’t know what that white stuff is, but I find the ultrasonic cleaner does a pretty good job with mostly water and a little alcohol and surfactant
Yes, I do the same and for the most part it works ok. But there are lots of old, crusty records where the US doesn't really get rid of everything. Maybe I'll try running the record through multiple times. I've been a bit afraid of whether that could possibly be harmful to the record or not.

Even though I have a purpose built US cleaner for records, I've seen what can happen if too much power / wrong frequencies are applied. Since my knowledge regarding what's bad/what's not is rather limited, I'm a bit afraid to test it out :oops:

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Re: Cleaning Vinyl (Again!)- An Interesting Method

Post by chgc » 19 Sep 2019 18:26

I use a $100 40 KHz ebay special. I sometimes have to clean a record a few times to remove really stubborn dirt, but I’ve never noticed any damage to the record that I can attribute to the cleaner.

Any hints regarding how the cleaner could damage records/what to look out for?

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Re: Cleaning Vinyl (Again!)- An Interesting Method

Post by GuidoK » 19 Sep 2019 19:08

chgc wrote:
19 Sep 2019 18:26
Any hints regarding how the cleaner could damage records/what to look out for?
It would probably be erosion damage. Probably surfaces that where previously shiny that are now matte.
Higher frequency is probably safer (40khz is quite high, some have a choice/switch between for example 20khz and 40khz)

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Re: Cleaning Vinyl (Again!)- An Interesting Method

Post by chgc » 20 Sep 2019 01:59

Thanks. I’ll keep an eye out for that.

Re. cleaning records with impregnated wipes or anything that leaves a residue on the record; that seems like it would cause more problems than it would solve.