Best record cleaner and anti static system???

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hruki
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Re: Best record cleaner and anti static system???

Post by hruki » 21 Oct 2019 11:01

Tombo62 wrote:
07 Oct 2019 22:18
Hi Hrvoje,
I am not qualified to comment on the suitability of the Brulin, “Maxima 256”. Perhaps Vince will comment. I purchased one of the earliest HW-16 VPI Vac machines back in circa 1981 and updated to 16.5 status in about 1985, and have been happily cleaning records with it ever since, still using it today. I believe that a vacuum is by far the quickest and also the most effective way to remove the highest percentage of cleaning fluid (with solubilized waste) and rinse water, with the least amount of evaporation occurring on the surface of the record. Others disagree and think that air drying is just fine and does not induce a static charge. I am opposed to air drying, as solubilized contaminates or surfactants in the cleaning fluid or rinse liquid will be left on the record. This is a major failing of tank type cleaning devices, such as the Spin Clean, Disco Anti-Stat or Ultra Sonic tanks.
Others have reported perfectly satisfactory results by removing the fluids with a soft cotton cloth (micro fiber most commonly recommended). They often claim that they can remove more liquid with less evaporation than a vac system due to an effect rapid evaporation that occurs at the vacuum slot-record interface. This is mostly theory with little or no scientific evidence (to my knowledge) to actually indicate with method removes the most liquid with the least amount of evaporation. My feeling is that a powerful vacuum system will remove the fluid from the depth of the groove, better than would a cloth wiped over the surface (just my option). One thing is certain, brand new cotton cloth has a lot of loose fibers (lint) and should be run through the wash cycle, washer-dryer, two or three times to remove lint before using on a record. Although rarely used, some people believe that blowing the fluid off with compressed air is best (good luck with that and hold on to your record).
A "normal" or household vacuum cleaner is not recommended. If making your own vac system, you will want to get a small (1 gallon size) "Wet or Dry" Shop Vac to pick up fluid. There are dozens of youtube videos about making your own.
The last thing is that your cleaning methodology is as important (or even more so) than the cleaning fluids that you use. Just to give you some good ideas, here is a link to the Disc Doctor website explaining their recommended methods of record cleaning, although, to each his own and everyone seems to develop their own preferred method over years of practice.

http://www.discdoc.com/p14.html

Kindest Regards,
Tom
Hi Tom,

I was on and off, doing several things in the same time, for some time, but was thinking about what you wrote quite often! To begin with, thank you for your generosity! I find what you said of a great value, as you don't forget the small things. There is a Beckett quote I find appropriate, I'll leave it in french, as I couldn't find it in english: "Se donner du mal pour les petites choses, c'est parvenir aux grandes, avec le temps". There is another one, by B. Franklin: "By failing to prepare, you are preparing to fail." Funny thing is that I proudly kept my microfiber cloths brand new, waiting for first cleaning session. Thanks to you, they are not brand new any more... [-X

The vacuum machine is out of reach for me, at least for the moment, but you did woken my interest quite a bit!

vince1
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Re: Best record cleaner and anti static system???

Post by vince1 » 21 Oct 2019 17:12

My opinion, backed up by years of measuring static charge on records, is that you should never dry wipe with anything. The vacuum machines have velvet slots that are wet throughout the process so if used correctly, records come out lightly moist and can be air dried. If hand-drying, which I do not recommend, it should at least be done with a wet cloth. Water is a key component of preventing static charge (or dissipating it). Here is a link for those that want to understand what static is and how to prevent/treat it: https://audiokarma.org/forums/index.php ... t-13151724

iShootRAW
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Re: Best record cleaner and anti static system???

Post by iShootRAW » 21 Oct 2019 18:36

Nitty Gritty Mini Pro 2 + Zreostat 3 is what I found that works best for me.

Tombo62
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Re: Best record cleaner and anti static system???

Post by Tombo62 » 26 Oct 2019 22:13

I feel like I should apologise and offer clarification to my prior comments concerning air drying and tank type cleaning systems, both of which can be valuable assets in record cleaning. My objection is only to not rinsing off contaminated cleaning fluid. Manufactures of such systems often recommend cleaning up to 100 records in the same bath water and then allowing that filthy water to air dry on the record. These manufactures apparently believe that offering a simple "one step" system is not only much less expensive to produce but is also highly desirable in the marketplace. They are correct, many people love these systems and are perfectly happy with the results.
My own limited experience indicates that even with a record that has been washed and rinsed twice with distilled water and then allowed to air dry will have a slight increase in surface noise and a slight reduction in transparency, that can be improved by another rinse followed by vacuum extraction. I'm not sure if this is due to particles in the air that land on the wet record surface, solubilize, and become stuck enough to resist carbon fiber brushing, or if it is simply impurities in the distilled water I'm using. There are a number of people who firmly believe that using Reagent-Grade ASTM Type 1 water offers significant improvements over distilled, even when removed by a vacuum. I have no reason to doubt their sincerity, but being rather cheap and lazy, I have convinced myself that distilled water immediately extracted by vacuum is good enough.

https://forum.audiogon.com/discussions/ ... -very-long

The current recommend method for cleaning lacquer discs by the Library of Congress can also be adapted as a quick and effective method for vinyl discs.

https://www.nedcc.org/audio-preservation/cleaning-discs

Note that after a thorough rinse with Type 1 water, the record is patted dry with a lint free micro fiber cloth, then air dried for 10-15 minutes. Presumably, they would also brush or blow off any dust before attempting to retrieve the audio. Most of us do not have high purity water flowing from the kitchen sink, so a small pump type garden sprayer filled with distilled or Type-1 water for the pre-rinse and final rinse could be recommended, such as:

https://www.amazon.com/Harris-Pump-Spra ... 79&sr=8-24

Vince was absolutely correct in cautioning against building up a static charge by dry wiping. A dry record wiped with a dry cloth is a superb method of increasing the voltage potential of the static charge, however, your efforts to produce a charge that will lift the turntable mat off with the record or discharge a spark to a finger one inch away, may be greatly limited by the amount of water vapour in the air.
My feeling is that "rag cleaning" or cleaning with a cloth has a proud and noble heritage in history of record cleaning and dates back father than any other method. Many of my 1950's and 1960's LP pressings came with proper care, storage and handling instructions printed on the inner sleeve, which said "Clean with a slightly damp, lint free cloth", which for many was the only cleaning they ever needed.
There are some who have taken rag cleaning to new heights, use multiple, specially made high density record cloths made in Japan, high purity surfactant based cleaning fluids, ultra pure water with multiple rinses, separate high quality brushes for each step and avoid any chance of cross contamination between steps like the plague, and claim to get results better than any other method. I have not tried it.
For the rag cleaning enthusiast who is not quite so fastidious I would think that thoroughly removing the cleaning fluid with a cloth until the record was completely dry and then by doing a thorough rinse or two which would discharge any prior static and by patting dry or wiping lightly with the folded edge of a dry cloth which would become moist with the water picked from the record, would be significant to minimize the induction of static. Please correct me if I am wrong.

Kindest regards.
Tom

Merlot2018
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Re: Best record cleaner and anti static system???

Post by Merlot2018 » 07 Nov 2019 00:51

Hi everyone,
Thanks for all the good information.
I'm just building my collection, and quickly found out the importance of proper cleaning before playing.
Understand to use the right chemicals/formula (and dont use household cleaners).

But I'm intrigued by the product named "Original Krud Kutter". Claims to be designed as a vinyl cleaner, non-toxic, etc.
Using to clean albums is ok...or terrible idea? (must confess I used it, seems to work but....)

Krud Kutter Original:
Ingredient Cas # Function
Water 7732-18-5 Solvent
Ethoxylated alcohol Withheld Surfactant
Sodium metasilicate 6834-92-0 Alkaline Builder
L-Glutamic acid 51981-21-6 Chelator
Propylene glycol 57-55-6 Solubilizer
Potassium hydroxide 1310-58-2 pH Adjustor

https://www.rustoleum.com/product-catal ... rud-kutter


Thx,
JA

Tombo62
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Re: Best record cleaner and anti static system???

Post by Tombo62 » 07 Nov 2019 02:12

Hi JA, Looks like great stuff, I've been looking for something that would clean tile grout, soap scum, dried latex paint & tree sap. Not sure how it would affect vinyl records, but I assume that a little bit of household dust and a fingerprint or two, would be no match for this stuff. Not sure about the residue it would leave behind or how it might affect sound quality or the long term preservation of your records. You may want to consider giving a good rinse with a pressure washer after using this. But who knows, maybe many of the people using wood glue, scrubbing bubbles, tidy bowl & easy off will switch to Kurd Kutter after you post the results of this marvellous new record cleaner. Please forgive my poor attempt at humor, but by all means, proceed with caution.
Kindest Regards, Tom

Merlot2018
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Re: Best record cleaner and anti static system???

Post by Merlot2018 » 08 Nov 2019 22:47

lol thanks for the reply. btw - i did dilute to 50% concentration with distilled water so should be good to go, right?
ok, i just need to read over the Vince formula instructions and do the right thing. JA

vince1
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Re: Best record cleaner and anti static system???

Post by vince1 » 09 Nov 2019 00:05

That stuff has a caustic pH (above 12). I wouldn't put it on my records.

PioneerFan
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Re: Best record cleaner and anti static system???

Post by PioneerFan » 27 Nov 2019 14:59

Still baffled as to why the good old fashioned Carbon Fiber brush, not as a primary cleaning device, but rather, after "deep cleaning", and before spins, is not recognized as an anti static, anti dust particle solution? It takes more than just one approach.