Half-Speed Ripping

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Electrofuzzer
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Half-Speed Ripping

Post by Electrofuzzer » 03 Mar 2016 02:03

Hi, I have a couple of questions.

I am a sound engineer and work for a record label that we make reissues.

Often we do not have copy masters, usually not there. And we have to use the original record to send at GZ Media.

The last release I ripped at 16 2/3 RPM (half-speed). Declicker work better at half speed rips?
NOTE: I rip in 24/96, then, I convert to 192Khz.
It is better to rip 16 or 33?



Use material:
TURNTABLE: Lenco B52 (16/33/45/78)
Cartridge: Ortofon 2m RED
TUBE VALVE AMP: Vieta A217
ADC CONVERTER: Behringer Ultramatch Pro SRC2496 (Audiophile 24-Bit/96 kHz A/D-D/A & Sample Rate Converter)
SPEAKERS: Chario
SOUND INTERFACE (I Use only for the Optical Input)
Sound Blaster X-Fi USB

Software
iZotope RX Adv 4 (with declicker/denoiser/.....)

2nd question: Cartridges recommendeds to rip records

Thanks.

Lowlander2
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Re: Half-Speed Ripping

Post by Lowlander2 » 03 Mar 2016 13:52

I can't comment on every stage of your process, but if you record at half speed you must do so without RIAA equalisation. RIAA equalisation, e.g. from a phono input, affects the wrong frequencies if every tone is an octave lower than expected. Therefore the RIAA curve must be applied to the normal speed signal at a later stage.

Half speed ripping will give you a slightly cleaner treble signal, because the stylus has more time to follow the groove. I don't think it will make much of a difference in RX4's declicker module.

I use an Audiotechnica AT20SLA for ripping because it does not give me any audible sibilance effect whatsoever. Once recorded, sibilance is almost impossible to get rid of.

And, "Behringer" and "audiophile" are two different things.

mmarston
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Re: Half-Speed Ripping

Post by mmarston » 03 Mar 2016 20:04

Lowlander2 is correct about the RIAA EQ. I'm not familiar with your software; it may be possible to apply inverse RIAA to the half speed file, and then apply RIAA after the speed is shifted.

Another possible problem is that rumble, if present, will be shifted up an octave and become more audible. If your preamp has a rumble filter at, say, 30 Hz, this frequency will also be doubled.

As far as cartridge choice, that is somewhat personal preference. Generally if it sounds good "live" it will be OK for copying, except that distortion in the top octave may cause problems with A/D filtering at lower sample rates (if the filter design is inadequate.) Your use of 96k should alleviate this if present.

I personally wouldn't bother with all this. I'm getting excellent results recording at normal speed (and I don't have anything that will play 16 2/3, so would have to buy something!) Doubling the time spent per album doesn't appeal to me at all; I'm trying to work my way through a pile of several thousand LPs and almost as many 45s...

w_axlrose1
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Re: Half-Speed Ripping

Post by w_axlrose1 » 04 Mar 2016 16:24

I'm also unsure as to why you would upsample to 192KHz after you've already recorded it with a sampling rate of 96KHz.

Lowlander2
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Re: Half-Speed Ripping

Post by Lowlander2 » 07 Mar 2016 12:53

Electrofuzzer wrote:[...] we make reissues. [...] Often [...] we have to use the original record [...]
Just curious, but do you state on the reissue that it is a 2nd generation vinyl copy?

I've read of forum members pulling their hair out trying to adjust their equipment to get rid of sibilance and other playback flaws that only occur on one or a few of their records. What if there is a slight risk those flaws were recorded on the very (reissued) vinyl itself?

Kurt45
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Re: Half-Speed Ripping

Post by Kurt45 » 07 Mar 2016 14:25

Lowlander2 wrote: I use an Audiotechnica AT20SLA for ripping because it does not give me any audible sibilance effect whatsoever. Once recorded, sibilance is almost impossible to get rid of.
+1. The Ortofon Red is a well-regarded entry-level cartridge, but I would want to use something better if I was mastering these LPs for posterity, something capable of tracking even the most heavily modulated LP. I would also give the records a good cleaning beforehand. The declicker can't undo the sound of a grimy record.

isidroco
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Re: Half-Speed Ripping

Post by isidroco » 27 Jun 2019 20:24

Similar issue here. My 45 RPM LP is warped, it jumps at normal speed (even with the Shure Stabilizer on), and tracks ok at 33.
My steps:
Recorded on 24/96
Encode to RIAA filter (had to edit XML eqfile from audacity and invert all RIAA eq filter terms)
Change speed by 1.35
Decode RIAA filter (this is included in audacity)
adjust volume level and save

lini
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Re: Half-Speed Ripping

Post by lini » 29 Jun 2019 19:14

Ef: I'm lazy, so I'll just quote myself from over there: https://audiokarma.org/forums/index.php ... st-9536141

"I'd see several disadvantages:

- It would take twice the time.

- It would be unpleasant to simultaneously listen to for control purposes.

- One might just gain better top octave performance for worse bottom octave performance.

- One would lose half the digital resolution in the time compression later on.

- RIAA (re-)equalisation would be off (wrong level over frequency...). So one would either a) need a phono stage with custom (re-)EQ curve or b) have to sample in a linear fashion (= without (re-)EQ) and then apply (re-)EQ by software after time compression - with b) bringing us back to the second point, 'cause in that case simultaneous control monitoring would be even more unpleasant.

So all in all I'd deem it highly questionable, whether that would be a good idea."


Greetings from Munich!

Manfred / lini

Werner
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Re: Half-Speed Ripping

Post by Werner » 19 Jul 2019 06:23

This can translate RIAA between different speeds. Coming from the author of ClickRepair you can trust this SW to do its job properly.

http://www.clickrepair.net/software_info/equalizer.html

I tried half-speed recording many years ago. It was an interesting experience, and it would reduce cartridge distortion significantly, but one huge drawback was that the minutest trace of 50/100Hz system hum, and there is always such a trace, was transposed to 100/200Hz, where it is much more audible and not to get rid of.

NOYB
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Re: Half-Speed Ripping

Post by NOYB » 19 Jul 2019 12:27

Werner wrote:
19 Jul 2019 06:23
... one huge drawback was that the minutest trace of 50/100Hz system hum, and there is always such a trace, was transposed to 100/200Hz, where it is much more audible and not to get rid of.
Convert the equipment to 12 volt dc and run it from a battery.

KentT
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Re: Half-Speed Ripping

Post by KentT » 19 Jul 2019 13:31

Lose the 2M Red, lose the Behringer, lose the Creative. Get proper gear and use as little de-clicking as you can get away with. Creative is for gaming, not for those who do quality transfers of vintage recordings. It all starts with the source and the equipment. Also, make sure the turntable and arm are in truly top condition.

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