Legal warning for vinyl rippers

[Trackside]

I have been informed that if you copy vinyl to digital and then sell the vinyl you are committing a crime If you no longer want to listen to vinyl you will have to keep it in storage or destroy it. I'm not even sure if destroying the original means you also have to destroy the copy so just to be safe I'd make sure you keep it .

[Dimal]

Interesting...

Can't imagine too many of us parting with the sacred vinyl though...

Mal.

[JaS]

AFAIK it's still illegal in the UK to copy an LP/CD to any other format, whether you own the original or not? The Hargreaves Review recommended a change in the copyright law to allow people to copy music onto MP3 players etc, but I'm not sure if this has made it into law yet?

Regards,
JaS

[1200y3]

This is always an interesting topic. I always thought it was a joke that the record industry for over 100 years sold a superior product, but nobody ever heard vinyl at its finest unless they were from an engineering bacground. Very few audiophiles existed until the CD arrived. Nearly everyone who purchased vinyl played it on a destructive turntable that turned LPs into worthless noisemakers. But the continual need for diamond styli existed which meant open pit mining.

The only thing fair about the music industry was the continuing advancement into digital technology.

If vinyl ripping is so bad, then maybe whoever threw the first stone should back their reasons.

Besides, the digital format is not even a piece solid evidence.

[Blue Angel]

This is always an interesting topic. I always thought it was a joke that the record industry for over 100 years sold a superior product, but nobody ever heard vinyl at its finest unless they were from an engineering bacground. Very few audiophiles existed until the CD arrived. Nearly everyone who purchased vinyl played it on a destructive turntable that turned LPs into worthless noisemakers. But the continual need for diamond styli existed which meant open pit mining.

The only thing fair about the music industry was the continuing advancement into digital technology.

If vinyl ripping is so bad, then maybe whoever threw the first stone should back their reasons.

Besides, the digital format is not even a piece solid evidence.

Some real sweeping statements, 1200y3

I wonder then what type of person purchased HiFiNews, Stereo Review and countless other audio magazines prior to the coming of CD? Cannibals in Borneo or Mongols in Outer Mongolia?

Only one of the named British hifi magazines referred to above claimed an ABC audited readership of 58'692 in March 1976.

I am also flummoxed as to who the pre-CD audio writers Ralph West, Rex Baldock, "Adrian Hope", Donald Aldous, "Gordon J. King" and countless others on both sides of the Atlantic catered for?

Another thing, turntables on their own will not destroy records. You will have to add an arm to do this. To wit Alastair Robertson-Aikman's pre-CD pioneering work on his 3012 and 3009 series arms certainly will not destroy records.

In retrospect, I should have ignored your fantasy statements but my concern is that those preferring vinyl playback younger than myself will be misled by your skewed sense of vinyl history.

ba

[1200y3]

I'm sorry, I just forgot that every rock n roll teenager in North America had an SME 3009 prior to 1982!

I'm sorry that I did't understand that magazines are the most important in today's industry. When my father was a sound engineer in the 50's to the 70's (and nothing to be proud about BTW) he dealt with the actual designers, and salesmen were just runners.

But since there will never be another Jagger or McCartney, who cares.

[Hanuman]

AFAIK, copyright law is reasonably uniform across many jurisdictions, tending to be aligned in accordance certain universal treaties and conventions. There's not much doubt that any unauthorised duplication (and digitising your vinyl records is certainly that) is a violation of copyright although there is a "Fair Use" exemption, mostly to cover scholarship and journalism. Private copying did get tested many, many years ago with cassette copying. Then, the US courts, I believe, sided with the consumer as long as the copies were for personal use. Making a personal gain from your copying though, by selling your originals and keeping the copies, would surely be absolutely prohibited - that is basic piracy, as pointed out in another thread.

I think courts have always understood that the various copyright stakeholders usually over-claim their rights. For example, the musicians union initially demanded double royalties in the early days of stereo!

[David.D]

There have been several threads about this on various sites - HiFiWigwam, PinkfishMedia. From what I have read, there is nothing to stop you copying your LP's onto another medium for your own enjoyment. Should you then start selling copies, you would be in breach of copyright. In the meantime, if you wish to sell your second hand LP, you can do so legally.
The above is as I understand it.
Dave

[Hanuman]

In the meantime, if you wish to sell your second hand LP, you can do so legally.

... with the proviso, I think, that you destroy any personal copies. You are certainly free to sell or give away your records. But, if you're holding onto your copies of those records that is a clear breach of copyright, as I see it - no different to selling or giving away the copies and keeping the records.

[JaS]

There have been several threads about this on various sites - from what I have read, there is nothing to stop you copying your LP's onto another medium for your own enjoyment

Actually the law is quite clear on the matter - in the UK it's illegal to make copies of copyrighted music onto other formats, whether it's onto a tape, cd or MP3 player, without the express permission of the copyright owner.

Unlike in the US, there has never been a 'fair use' clause in the UK for music/films (nor does 'common law marriage' have any legal meaning) and the exceptions for private copying enshrined in EU law were never introduced here. AFAIK no one has ever been prosecuted for copying music for personal use, but that doesn't make it legal. Strange but true

It is an offence to perform any of the following acts without the consent of the owner:

Copy the work.

Rent, lend or issue copies of the work to the public.

Perform, broadcast or show the work in public.

Adapt the work.

Fair dealing with a literary, dramatic, musical or artistic work other than a sound recording or film for the purposes of research for a non-commercial purpose does not infringe any copyright in the work, provided that it is accompanied by a sufficient acknowledgement, usually bibliographical details.

The fair dealing research and private study exemption does not apply at all to sound recordings or films.

As I said, the Hargreaves review does recommend a change in the law to allow copying of music/films etc for personal use, but what form that will take isn't clear and it's unlikely to allow people to keep copies of music that they no longer own?

Regards,
JaS

[Trackside]

Don't want to end up like this poor fella
http://www.guardian.co.uk/uk/2012/jun/2 ... ns-answers

[JaS]

Don't want to end up like this poor fella
http://www.guardian.co.uk/uk/2012/jun/2 ... ns-answers

Not that poor

http://www.guardian.co.uk/uk/2012/jun/2 ... vshack-net

Over the three years it ran, according to court documents, the site's growing audience generated more than £140,000 in advertising revenue

Regards,
JaS

[R-E-M]

Jimmy 'Wikipedia' Wales has started a petition to protest his extradition to the US should anyone wish to sign....

http://www.change.org/petitions/ukhomeoffice-stop-the-extradition-of-richard-o-dwyer-to-the-usa-saverichard

[Jim Leach]

"Back in the day" my friends and I typically purchased blank cassettes at the same time as new vinyl because we played the disc once to make a 'working copy' to listen to on our boom boxes and in the car. Once it 'wore out' we'd re-play the vinyl a second time and make a new cassette.

Didn't realize what a criminal I was (doing that anyway- I did a lot of other stuff that certainly was worse...)