the home of the turntable

Problems with Windows, sample rate above 88.2KHz...

the mix tape forum

Re: Problems with Windows, sample rate above 88.2KHz...

Postby Guest » 18 Oct 2011 14:27

Hi Dimal,

I don't think you are looking at this from the right angle.

Did MyTek test your ADC192 and test recording digital >88.2KHz on a Windows 7 64 bit machine?

Any testing they did short of your exact use case is irrelevant to addressing your issue. I/O or other electronic testing is great but if the driver they wrote for your OS is junk all those tests mean nothing. For the price of the unit THEY should be writing a custom driver for YOU to get this to work, not the other way around.

The earliest Tascam and E-Mu 64 bit drivers all had sync or dropout issues until they fixed them. Sounds like MyTek may be in the same boat. If this were truly a known MS 64 bit issue, you can bet there would be plenty of discussions about it on MS and recording forums. But there aren't, other than this one. MS is an easy target.
Guest
 

Re: Problems with Windows, sample rate above 88.2KHz...

Postby Hanuman » 18 Oct 2011 16:30

b-side wrote:Did MyTek test your ADC192 and test recording digital >88.2KHz on a Windows 7 64 bit machine?

Any testing they did short of your exact use case is irrelevant to addressing your issue. I/O or other electronic testing is great but if the driver they wrote for your OS is junk all those tests mean nothing. For the price of the unit THEY should be writing a custom driver for YOU to get this to work, not the other way around.

Not exactly Mytek's problem is it? Their's is a box that converts analogue input into standard AES/EBU or S/PDIF output which might (or not) go into a sound card. This is Avid's (and possibly Microsoft's) issue.
“I don’t hold with furniture that talks.” - Titus Moody
Hanuman
senior member
senior member
 
Posts: 943
Images: 82
Joined: 12 Jun 2007 07:59
Location: Bangkok

Re: Problems with Windows, sample rate above 88.2KHz...

Postby Dimal » 19 Oct 2011 13:26

b-side wrote:Hi Dimal,

I don't think you are looking at this from the right angle.

Did MyTek test your ADC192 and test recording digital >88.2KHz on a Windows 7 64 bit machine?

Any testing they did short of your exact use case is irrelevant to addressing your issue. I/O or other electronic testing is great but if the driver they wrote for your OS is junk all those tests mean nothing. For the price of the unit THEY should be writing a custom driver for YOU to get this to work, not the other way around.

G'day "b-side"... :)

I'm very happy with the response from Mytek. They went out of their way and purchased the same hardware I have, assembled it and ran it with the same setup I have. I don't think you can ask for anything more than that.

They proved, without doubt and to my satisfaction, that the ST192 ADC is producing an exceptionally reliable clock pulse at all sample rate frequencies the unit is rated for.

Essentially, the ST192 ADC is nothing more than a Sig-Gen in this situation, it is not a comm's device sending and receiving data, only sending. It works without fault on a current Mac and now on my machine running WInXP - It's the receiving end of the data stream that needs to be up to the task, not the other way around, in this case...

b-side wrote:The earliest Tascam and E-Mu 64 bit drivers all had sync or dropout issues until they fixed them. Sounds like MyTek may be in the same boat. If this were truly a known MS 64 bit issue, you can bet there would be plenty of discussions about it on MS and recording forums. But there aren't, other than this one. MS is an easy target.

Actually there are plenty to be found - I've been searching for solutions for months and there are hundreds of Win7 X64 instances of failure with this sort of combo and not Mytek in particular.

It is definitely a Windows 7 or Win7 Drivers issue and I'm not going to waste my time trying to differentiate between them.

Mal.
Dimal
senior member
senior member
contributor
 
Posts: 604
Images: 2
Joined: 26 Nov 2008 07:38
Location: QLD Australia

Australia

Re: Problems with Windows, sample rate above 88.2KHz...

Postby ripblade » 19 Oct 2011 21:31

Glad you got your problems sorted out, Mal. The Myteks are top quality and I would be very surprised to learn that they could be responsible for any issues.

Now that you have the recorder up and running, please let me know if you experience any corrupted (ie distorted) files written to the drive. I have an issue with this and am trying to pinpoint what the problem is.

Glenn
How boring it would be, this endeavor
If all we heard was "perfect sound forever"
ripblade
senior member
senior member
 
Posts: 506
Images: 0
Joined: 05 Oct 2008 19:51
Location: Toronto, Ontario

Re: Problems with Windows, sample rate above 88.2KHz...

Postby Dimal » 20 Oct 2011 14:14

ripblade wrote:Glad you got your problems sorted out, Mal. The Myteks are top quality and I would be very surprised to learn that they could be responsible for any issues.

G'day mate.... :)

Must admit Glenn, sending the Mytek off to be tested was just about the last straw, as I too had serious doubts that it was contributing to the problem in any way. Wasn't my call though, Mytek's rep here in Oz insisted that I return it so they could thoroughly test it out. Worth doing in my opinion.

ripblade wrote:Now that you have the recorder up and running, please let me know if you experience any corrupted (ie distorted) files written to the drive. I have an issue with this and am trying to pinpoint what the problem is.

What sort of distortion are you referring to Glenn? Data stream corruption of some sort?

Mal.
Dimal
senior member
senior member
contributor
 
Posts: 604
Images: 2
Joined: 26 Nov 2008 07:38
Location: QLD Australia

Australia

Re: Problems with Windows, sample rate above 88.2KHz...

Postby ripblade » 20 Oct 2011 22:09

That's correct, Mal. About every 8-10 recordings the waveform will contain numerous tiny spikes spanning 3 samples each at 24/96. These are not audible during monitoring but are as a high pitch buzz during playback. I'm not certain what the I/O data path looks like, or why they are not audible during the recording, but it is a nuisance wasting 45 minutes and having to redo it.

I thought it might be the software I was using since it uses MME to communicate with the soundcard. I changed to a different program, one that allows the option to use DirectX. This seems to have helped but the problem ultimately still exists.

I've tried various drivers but they all behave the same way. I could replace the MAudio card but there's no guarantee that another will eliminate the problem. It could be as you have found that this is a WindowsXP issue.

It's a pain troubleshooting an intermittent problem. For me even moreso as I'm not really that familiar with what goes on under the hood of a computer. I'll take any help I can get.

Glenn
How boring it would be, this endeavor
If all we heard was "perfect sound forever"
ripblade
senior member
senior member
 
Posts: 506
Images: 0
Joined: 05 Oct 2008 19:51
Location: Toronto, Ontario

Re: Problems with Windows, sample rate above 88.2KHz...

Postby jiiteepee » 21 Oct 2011 05:06

ripblade wrote:...
I thought it might be the software I was using since it uses MME to communicate with the soundcard. I changed to a different program, one that allows the option to use DirectX. This seems to have helped but the problem ultimately still exists.
...
Glenn


If that's true then try ASIO (native)/WASAPI(exclusive mode)/KernelStreaming (WDM/KS)/Asio4all drivers. With those you'll get bit-matched path (S/PDIF). There are plenty of recording/playback software which supports these driver APIs.


jiitee
jiiteepee
member
member
contributor
 
Posts: 248
Joined: 20 Mar 2007 16:07
Location: EU-FIN

Re: Problems with Windows, sample rate above 88.2KHz...

Postby ripblade » 21 Oct 2011 12:51

Worth a try, jiitee. What programs use ASIO for recording purposes(keeping in mind they must be <$100)?

Glenn
How boring it would be, this endeavor
If all we heard was "perfect sound forever"
ripblade
senior member
senior member
 
Posts: 506
Images: 0
Joined: 05 Oct 2008 19:51
Location: Toronto, Ontario

Re: Problems with Windows, sample rate above 88.2KHz...

Postby Dimal » 21 Oct 2011 15:58

ripblade wrote:Worth a try, jiitee. What programs use ASIO for recording purposes(keeping in mind they must be <$100)?

Glenn

G'day Glenn... :)

There are quite a few true 24bit recording/editing app's as alluded to by "jiitee". Sonar have one called "Pyro Audio Creator" that has a number of modules to take care of most needs, except perhaps, decent audio restoration tools but then there are specialist app's for that purpose....

I tried recording from a different album today and that oddity where the negative half of the L/H channel and the positive half of the R/H channel seem to get attenuated, occurred as before. I've thoroughly checked out all external hardware including the Tonearm/Cartridge setup, and it's as good as I can humanly achieve, and then tests out extremely well.

While recording and monitoring the incoming audio (as it's displayed on the software), the incoming signal is perfect with signal values above '0'db (positive and negative) being almost perfect mirror images. However, at the completion of recording when the software saves the data to a file, the above attenuation is very noticeable and very discouraging.

There is very definitely some sort of distortion/corruption going on but am at a loss to know its origin. Looks like more research and trawling through the Web in the hope of identifying what is going on. Starting to think I should have just bought an Apple Mac to start off with, as most of all of these headaches seem to be related, in some way, to Windows idiosyncrasies.... :(

Mal.
Dimal
senior member
senior member
contributor
 
Posts: 604
Images: 2
Joined: 26 Nov 2008 07:38
Location: QLD Australia

Australia

Re: Problems with Windows, sample rate above 88.2KHz...

Postby jiiteepee » 21 Oct 2011 21:49

ripblade wrote:Worth a try, jiitee. What programs use ASIO for recording purposes(keeping in mind they must be <$100)?

Glenn


VSTHost (free), Reaper (fully working shareware), Kristal (free), Mutools (free), Audacity (need to build ASIO compatibility by your self), ASIOHost (free), Wavosaur Audio editor (free) there are few more as freeware ... and ofcourse commercial low budged ones.

jiitee
jiiteepee
member
member
contributor
 
Posts: 248
Joined: 20 Mar 2007 16:07
Location: EU-FIN

Re: Problems with Windows, sample rate above 88.2KHz...

Postby Whitneyville » 22 Oct 2011 05:46

My AVID audio/video card will support 192K/32 bit on Win XP Pro on ol' Frank here fine, but I find no reason for the mega-size files. AVID made NO support for my card and Vista, because Vista couldn't handle video properly in editing or authoring (time base issues). Few Win 7 machines use the type of card slots (SD) ol' Frank has, so you'd need a "later generation card", but mine has an oven for the crystal controller on it for stability, and two fans for the processors. 192Mhz can be dead stable in cop car radios from -40*F to 180*F in Motorola and Yuasa trunked sub-banded radios, and that's a thousand times the frequency we work with. Look at the new cell phones working in the 900MHz band. I think it's a software problem that no one will admit to. That's NEVER happened before....
Whitneyville
long player
long player
 
Posts: 2277
Joined: 13 Feb 2009 20:08
Location: Tulsa, OK

United States of America

Re: Problems with Windows, sample rate above 88.2KHz...

Postby Hanuman » 22 Oct 2011 12:44

Whitneyville wrote:That's NEVER happened before....

HaHa, yes what a surprise!

Mal, in all seriousness having a locked-in OS configuration just to run your DAW is not a bad way to go anyway. Windows XP is a good old workhorse for the job. Once it's happy leave well enough alone and even keep it disconnected from the internet if that's possible so that you don't have to tempt fate by installing a security patch or service pack not to mention not having to run an Anti-Virus program all the time. I'm in the same situation with my relatively ancient Pro Tools LE setup (7.4.2) which is on a bit of a mac "time-capsule": Leopard 10.5.4 - the last OS certified for the DAW and plugins.
“I don’t hold with furniture that talks.” - Titus Moody
Hanuman
senior member
senior member
 
Posts: 943
Images: 82
Joined: 12 Jun 2007 07:59
Location: Bangkok

Re: Problems with Windows, sample rate above 88.2KHz...

Postby ripblade » 22 Oct 2011 16:02

jiiteepee wrote:
ripblade wrote:Worth a try, jiitee. What programs use ASIO for recording purposes(keeping in mind they must be <$100)?

Glenn


VSTHost (free), Reaper (fully working shareware), Kristal (free), Mutools (free), Audacity (need to build ASIO compatibility by your self), ASIOHost (free), Wavosaur Audio editor (free) there are few more as freeware ... and ofcourse commercial low budged ones.

jiitee
Thanks gentlemen, will look into these as time permits. I did take a quick look at Wavosaur. Since it needs no installer I downloaded it and took a look at the device configurations. It uses MME or DirectX for recording...no Asio. It also has some very interesting analysis tools so it's still worth keeping.

Thanks again.

Glenn
How boring it would be, this endeavor
If all we heard was "perfect sound forever"
ripblade
senior member
senior member
 
Posts: 506
Images: 0
Joined: 05 Oct 2008 19:51
Location: Toronto, Ontario

Re: Problems with Windows, sample rate above 88.2KHz...

Postby DaveinEL » 22 Oct 2011 17:28

I have a PC running Windows 7 SP1 32-bit running Audition 3 with a M-Audio Audiophile 2496 sound card. I have no problem recording analog signals from the record out of my preamp into the Line-in RCA's of the sound card at 24-bit 96 kHz.
The AP2496 drivers are version 5.10.0.5076
As an experiment I connected the SPDIF-out of my oppo 83SE to the SPDIF-in of the AP2496. In the hardware section of the AP2496 panel I set sync source to external spdif.
The SPDIF locked at 48000 kHz by default. I then played a 24-bit 96 kHz DVD-V with the oppo. The AP2496 SPDIF clock then locked at 96000 kHz, so I stopped the playback and started it over from the beginning.
Audition had been set to record at 24-bit 96 kHz and wouldn't record at this rate until the 96000 kHz reclock and then recorded perfectly.
I looked at the saved audio wave file in spectral analysis and it appears to be 96 kHz.

With this experience, I would say the Windows 7 can record at 24-bit 96000 kHz through the SPDIF-in connection of a sound card.
User avatar
DaveinEL
member
member
 
Posts: 25
Joined: 07 Dec 2010 23:37
Location: Elliot Lake, Ontario

Re: Problems with Windows, sample rate above 88.2KHz...

Postby jiiteepee » 22 Oct 2011 18:32

Wavosaur is ASIO compatible software:.

Image

You may need to install Asio4All driver ...


jiitee
jiiteepee
member
member
contributor
 
Posts: 248
Joined: 20 Mar 2007 16:07
Location: EU-FIN

PreviousNext

Return to Vinyl Ripping