Problems with Windows, sample rate above 88.2KHz...

[Dimal]

Hi again everyone...

Have discovered over the past few days, that Windows 7 Pro X64 is unable to reliably maintain sync with Sample Rates above 88.2KHz (24bit word length) via S/P DIF - Either using TOSLINK or Digital Co-ax...

I've tried two different Audio Cards, an Asus Xonar D2X and an M-Audio AP192. Contacted Mytek in the US whereby they bought the same M-Audio Card and confirmed the results I've been observing. The same card in a current Apple machine works fine right up to 192KHz.... Have only just bought a new high range Intel based PC so can't afford to go out now and buy an Apple.

Has anyone else experienced a similar thing with Windows 7 X64 and were you able to overcome it at all? Needless to say, very disappointed...

Mal.

[jiiteepee]

Which driver model are you using (WASAPI/DS/MME/WDM/ASIO/...)?

jiitee

[Dimal]

G'day "jiitee"....

Normally use ASIO driver but have also tried other options and makes no difference...

Mal.

[b-side]

hi dimal, can you explain your signal chain and what exactly you are doing, and the symptom not remaining in sync? At first glance I am confused. I would think if you are asking here then you are ripping vinyl, in which case the most common setup is inputting analog into the soundcard not digital.

[Dimal]

hi dimal, can you explain your signal chain and what exactly you are doing, and the symptom not remaining in sync? At first glance I am confused. I would think if you are asking here then you are ripping vinyl, in which case the most common setup is inputting analog into the soundcard not digital.

G'day "b-side"...

Yep, I am ripping vinyl but I'm not using the sound-card's ADC to do it. Rather, I am using a Mytek ST192 ADC to do this, and then (trying to) feed the digital stream into the S/P DIF input of the audio card. Much prefer to leave all analogue signals external to the PC and use a recognised high quality ADC to digitise same. Not an uncommon way to go about things....

Mal.

[b-side]

I follow you, didn't see the ADC mentioned until I read your other threads. You didn't say what the symptom of losing sync is. Can you toggle whether the soundcard clock is set internally or by the external device?

I would consult with the soundcard manufacturers who both advertise support for Windows 7 64 bit, rather than suspect the OS itself. Perhaps you have another digital source to test other than the Mytek?

FWIW, I am running Win 7 Pro 64 and have no issues outputting digital at 24-96 over HDMI to my Receiver. I don't have a SPDIF cable handy to test inputting digital at 24-96 to my USB soundcard...

[ripblade]

Is this on the recording side or playback? What software recorder are you using?

I'm interested in this topic because I had problems recording a s/pdif stream at 24/96 from a Mytek Stereo96 into an MAudio Audiophile card with a software recorder that uses the MME API (Winxp) for data communication. The written files were spoiled even though the monitor stream sounded fine.

I've since changed to a recorder that uses the DirectX API and so far no issues.

I know this isn't directly related to your problem but the hardware similarities point to something fishy.

[Dimal]

Hi Guys...

Actually, it never even gets as far as making a recording (although I have done that to prove the data was bad). But yes, this is when trying to record. Playback is fine since it uses the internal DAC and clock on the card - You can't use this when recording, unless you input analogue signals and use the card's ADC...

The M-Audio Driver panel gives you several options re: syncing to internal or external clocks (via S/P DIF) and you can monitor this 'live' while running a digital stream into the PC from the Mytek. All is fine until such time as you increase the sample rate above 88.2KHz. At 96KHz it intermittently loses sync and above that it doesn't even try.

The Mytek is back with the Aussie importer at the moment, hoping that something can be sorted out but I am not hopeful.....

Mal.

[Dimal]

Noone else using a 192KHz ADC and Windows?

Running out of ideas of where to turn next....

Mal.

[Hanuman]

G'Day Mal,

My instinctive advice in any irrational Windows related media problem is, indeed, to do it on a Mac. Understandably not an option here. You reported that "that Windows 7 Pro X64 is unable to reliably maintain sync with Sample Rates above 88.2KHz". Have you tried other flavours yet (Windows 7 32bit, Windows XP)? If you're able to it might be worth it. The Audiophile 192 certainly looks like it's supposed to do what you are trying to make it do under Windows 7. I used an Audiophile 2496 on a PowerMac G4 for a while and found that the M-Audio drivers were pretty flaky. I eventually found the "special" version that worked for me and stuck with it. It wasn't the latest version. You might want to do your own "driver-rolling" in this case.

You should certainly be using the Mytek as the master clock and synchronising your DAW accordingly. By-the-way, what software are you trying to do this with? After the investment in the Stereo192 (not cheap) a few hundred extra in something grown-up like Pro-Tools M-Powered wouldn't be a waste. I use Pro-Tools LE (on a Mac Mini) with a Stereo96 into Digi002 via S/PDIF and it has the useful methodology of enforcing all ADC controls from within the software regardless of what other control panels say. I can't speak for M-Powered or Windows behaviour, unfortunately.

One thing that occurred to me was that maybe the PCI card needs to be in a particular slot to get full performance - unlikely, I know, because 2 channels of audio at 192/24 is still relatively miniscule but it wouldn't hurt to try another slot.

[ripblade]

Noone else using a 192KHz ADC and Windows?

Running out of ideas of where to turn next....

Mal.

Try a different sound card perhaps?

[Dimal]

Try a different sound card perhaps?

G'day Rip'...

Yes mate, have tried that already but still experiencing the same problems - Wish it was that easy.....

Mal.

[Dimal]

You reported that "that Windows 7 Pro X64 is unable to reliably maintain sync with Sample Rates above 88.2KHz". Have you tried other flavours yet (Windows 7 32bit, Windows XP)?

G'day Hanuman....
Yep, have tried all the versions of Windows I own licenses for, namely... Win7 X64 and X32, Win Vista X64 and X32, WinXP Pro X32 and Win2K Pro X32. No joy with any of them...

The Audiophile 192 certainly looks like it's supposed to do what you are trying to make it do under Windows 7. I used an Audiophile 2496 on a PowerMac G4 for a while and found that the M-Audio drivers were pretty flaky. I eventually found the "special" version that worked for me and stuck with it. It wasn't the latest version. You might want to do your own "driver-rolling" in this case.

Yep, I have just started doing this but so far nothing works with Win7. About to start playing with WinXP...

You should certainly be using the Mytek as the master clock and synchronising your DAW accordingly.

Yep, have been doing this from the start.

By-the-way, what software are you trying to do this with? After the investment in the Stereo192 (not cheap) a few hundred extra in something grown-up like Pro-Tools M-Powered wouldn't be a waste.

Initially, I tried using an old copy of Cool Edit Pro I owned but after running into trouble with that, I went out and purchased Sonar X1 Essentials. Seems to have everything I need (and a lot more). Still have the same issues with this one though...

One thing that occurred to me was that maybe the PCI card needs to be in a particular slot to get full performance - unlikely, I know, because 2 channels of audio at 192/24 is still relatively minuscule but it wouldn't hurt to try another slot.

I do have 2 PCI Slots on my M'board so I could try that as an exercise. I'm not going to get my hopes up though.

Who would have thought that trying to digitise/restore my record collection would be so darn difficult? Given how few things there are left to try, I'd have to say that my nose is already touching the proverbial 'brick wall'...

Have been at this for months now, mainly playing musical hardware changes, driver changes, etc. The really stupid thing is, I can record HD Video on this same PC with no problems whatsoever (much higher bit rates than audio alone) and it literally walks it in.

One thing though, M-Audio support is completely non-existent; they haven't replied to a single request for help (of many that I sent). Very ordinary to say the least and I wouldn't buy anything of theirs again. Have spent untold number of nights trawling through their support forum too but the only recommendations that regularly turn up are very generic in nature

I'll give the PCI Slot swap a try and see how that goes.

Thanks mate,
Mal.

[Hanuman]

What did the Mytek guys have to say about this?

Have you tried the analogue input of the M-Audio?