Excessive gain when recording

[Distorted Vision]

I've connected the Recorder (ie Tape Out) from my T+A V10 amp to the Line-In of the onboard Realtek AC97 soundcard of my server.

When I record from my Michell Gyro SE the recording is very badly distorted. It appears the problem is that the gain is way too high. I have the line-in level set to the lowest setting in control panel and nothing I adjust in Audacity can fix it.

However, when I record from any other source everything is fine: my CD player the mixer which has two Technics SL1210. I think the problem may lie with my phono stage - Trichord Research Dino.

Will purchasing a soundcard like the M-Audio 24/96 or 192 sort this out?

Many thanks.

[JaS]

Hi,
Another card may help as onboard solutions are generally quite poor quality, but it's generally better to use a pre-out or inline volume control to set levels rather than rely on the software mixer. Another option would be to use a USB soundcard with a level control? I replaced my 2496 with an Edirol UA5 and it works really well.

Regards,
JaS

[Distorted Vision]

Thanks JaS will that external soundcard definitely work? Also how should I expect to pay for tha particular model? I appreciate it has been discontinued but there are none for sale on eBay. Are there any current equivalent models?

Many thanks.

[JaS]

Hi,
I can't guarantee it will work, but it should if the level from the tape out isn't truly excessive? I think I paid around £75 S/H for mine but the replacement UA-25 uses usb bus power rather than an external power supply so I would avoid that version. A UA-5 went for £42 last week which is a bit of a bargain.
http://cgi.ebay.co.uk/Edirol-UA-5-in-ex ... 0283853124

You could always get a QED inline volume control to work with what you have? I've used one in the past and they are a handy tool to have around - I only sold mine as I have the remote version now.
http://cgi.ebay.co.uk/QED-SDR-Passive-P ... 0268337862

Regards,
JaS

[Distorted Vision]

Thanks JaS. I was wondering why the gain is only excessive with the turntable? Does the problem lie with the Trichord Dino phonostage?
Isn't its output just at line level? I don't really understand why there is only a problem with the turntable while every other source is fine.

I like the idea of getting of an external unit now that you mentioned it. I can use it on my other machines etc. Also is there a degredation in sound quality with USB powered units?

I think I'll hold out and wait for one to come up on eBay.

Many thanks.

[Alec124c41]

Phonopreamps.com have a couple of preamps with variable output and surprisingly good quality, at very reasonable prices.

Alec

[JaS]

Isn't its output just at line level? I don't really understand why there is only a problem with the turntable while every other source is fine.

I'm not familiar with your amp but I'm guessing that the tape output is simply routing the incoming signal and that it's at a higher level than the CD player? Do you normally have the volume control on your amp lower when listening to your turntable?

Also is there a degredation in sound quality with USB powered units?

The USB units that I've heard have had better sound quality than internal soundcards, most probably due to the external power supply and shielding from other components? I went with the Edirol as M-Audio had issues with the drivers on their external card at the time, but it's probably sorted now (M-Audio also make the drivers for the Edirol).

Regards,
JaS

[Werner]

The Dino is a 'loud' phonostage. I've been pushing Graham to lower gain for ages, but to no avail

Can't you set it at lower gain when recording? Which cartridge and settings are you using now exactly?

This said I find it utterly weird that CD doesn't overdrive the ADC input in your system. That should be too loud too.

[Distorted Vision]

Many thanks Werner. I figured it was the Dino. I have an Ortofon Kontrapunkt B cartridge. I'm not sure what other settings you're referring to.

I haven't tried my CD player because I've no reason to record from it. I will try it though just out of interest. I have tried recording from my mixer which has two Technics SL1210 Mk2s and also my Sony Freeview box through a Tag McLaren DAC20. Both are fine.

[Babak]

Hi,

why not leave out the phono preamp?

With some software (e.g. Amadeus Pro on a Mac) it is possible to use a special filter for the RIAA curve (and also filters for mono-recordings from the pre-RIAA period).

Cheers

Babak

[Werner]

I figured it was the Dino. I have an Ortofon Kontrapunkt B cartridge. I'm not sure what other settings you're referring to.

So you are probably running the Dino at 63dB of gain. Turn it upside down and have a look at the settings there.

For recording you could reduce its gain then with one setting, that would be 52dB ('MM low'). Give it a try. Record in 24 bit mode (not that you'll get 24 meaningful bits of information ) and amplify it again later in a decent audio editor operating in floating point or at least with 32 bit accuracy.

It's not just the Dino (Dino is too loud, but only for MMs). Most modern 0.5mV MCs and modern +60dB phonostages together overload most soundcards or other recording ADCs. That's a fact of life.

Partly because of this I created my KlangwerK phonostage with continuously variable gain.

[Alabama978]

Hi Werner,

Looking at your picture of the phono stage prompts me to ask what type of cable you used for the input and output connections?

I'm building a Pearl + MC Phono stage at present and need some ideas for a good screened cable. I assume that a low capacitance is better to reduce the chance of changing the MC capacitive loading?

Any advice appreciated as I am not too knowledgeable on such matters

[Distorted Vision]

Hi Werner,

I tried what you said. I changed the DIP switches so that it was set to gain 52dB (MM Low) but it still overloaded the soundcard. Even 48dB (MM High) is overloading.

So I think I'll go with JaS solution of getting an external soundcard an adjusting the input.

[Distorted Vision]

Hi,

why not leave out the phono preamp?

With some software (e.g. Amadeus Pro on a Mac) it is possible to use a special filter for the RIAA curve (and also filters for mono-recordings from the pre-RIAA period).

Cheers

Babak

I don't really want to do this as I'd rather not be unpluggng and plugging in things in my sytem when I want to record from my turntable. Its also not possible on a practical level because my server is 3 metres from my turntable.