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Re: Rip 'em, then clean 'em?

Posted: 06 Apr 2019 20:49
by carlmart
That's a lot of work and a lot of time! A lot of fun too!

As I am now retired, I have the time. At least to spend on something really useful. My ears are quite fine, surprisingly, for my age. Let's hope they endure!

Getting a replacement disc on the case above was impossible, but even now getting a replacement CD doesn't mean it will sound the same or better. Quite likely it will sound worst.

Different from films, that got much better when DVDs were replaced with BD. Particularly because in many cases it involved some restoration or the new film capture was made from the negatives or a better positive copy.

Very rarely does disc remastering involve using the original tapes, which would be the best thing.

So the next better thing might be using the original LP, as long as it's not a re-release, which is the case with most of my LPs.

One thing I would love some recommendation on is the analog to usb converter box, that can go as high as possible in bit-rate and sampling... for a reasonable price.

One idea I have been considering is to convert the LPs to DSD, but not at too high a rate. First because the files would be too large, and second because I don't think there's much on the LP, frequency wise, that justifies to go too high. 20-bit 96KHz perhaps? Too much or too little?

Re: Rip 'em, then clean 'em?

Posted: 06 Apr 2019 23:54
by zlartibartfast
24 bit/96 kHz is the best choice I think. The file size is manageable for most folks today. It's not necessarily about the frequency range of the music you will record, but about the accuracy of your edits (especially if you are manually editing out distortions the waveform). You can always save the finished file as 24/48, which is the standard for DVD audio.

Prices for an ADC will be tied to the sample rate they operate at. Today 24/96 conversion is fairly inexpensive, and there's a lot to choose from. Verify the unit you're looking at is fully supported for you computer OS!

Re: Rip 'em, then clean 'em?

Posted: 16 Apr 2019 15:50
by Geof777
I am about 100 years behind on all this - I still do this sort of thing as if it were tapes:
I record from record onto a CD recorder Deck and CD-RW - if I make a mistake I can re record the last track.
I either press a button for next track or queue up each track one at a time (yes back tracking!)
Once I have my CD-RW finished I finalise then make a permanent copy of the CD and/or rip to MP3 or WAV for back up storage - I cannot rip to Flac or play Flac as far as I know
I have no way to edit out noises and clicks, not have a way to record direct to the computer. I guess it would be easier to connect a Laptop.
TBH I am happy doing it this way, but every once in a while I feel it would be handy to be able to post edit...

Re: Rip 'em, then clean 'em?

Posted: 16 Apr 2019 18:10
by zlartibartfast
Before I had a computer, I had a cassette deck that had a special feature called a "monitor erase head" (4th head).

It allowed me to record silence between the tracks of a record after I had completed the initial recording. It also allowed me to ruin a recording and force me to do another needle drop ;-}

Re: Rip 'em, then clean 'em?

Posted: 16 Apr 2019 18:30
by Sunwire
Geof777 wrote:
16 Apr 2019 15:50
I am about 100 years behind on all this - I still do this sort of thing as if it were tapes:
I record from record onto a CD recorder Deck and CD-RW - if I make a mistake I can re record the last track.
I either press a button for next track or queue up each track one at a time (yes back tracking!)
Once I have my CD-RW finished I finalise then make a permanent copy of the CD and/or rip to MP3 or WAV for back up storage - I cannot rip to Flac or play Flac as far as I know
I have no way to edit out noises and clicks, not have a way to record direct to the computer. I guess it would be easier to connect a Laptop.
TBH I am happy doing it this way, but every once in a while I feel it would be handy to be able to post edit...
Are you using a desktop computer?
If so, it's much easier to record directly to your hard disk.
Laptops usually have more limited inputs and outputs compared to a desktop machine.
Download a free copy of Audacity and start playing with it. It's fun!
https://www.audacityteam.org/download/

Re: Rip 'em, then clean 'em?

Posted: 16 Apr 2019 19:23
by carlmart
There are two key electronic factors in capturing LPs: the RIAA preamp you plug your turntable to, and the analog to digital converter (ADC).

Both should be high quality to make it worth it, as well as the turntable/cartridge. Both should also be external, so it's really no difference if you use a desktop or a laptop. You shouldn't use the computer's internal ADC, it has poor analog input ICs, as well as the ADC chip is not as good as it should be.

If you a have a quality audio card then you can use a desktop though.

On my first capture I used an external ADC which is affordable and well regarded: the Behringer UCA202. It's the minimum you should use. You plug the RIAA preamp into it and go through USB into the computer.

It has recording limitations: 16-bit and 48KHz only. The advantage is that files are not large. The higher you go in bit rate and sampling, the bigger the file size. Though that is not a problem nowadays.

But I intend to experiment with bit rates up 24-bit and 196 KHz sampling, and until I buy an external dedicated ADC I will use my Tascam high resolution recorder, which can record with such quality on memory cards. Then I just copy them to my computer.

I did use Audacity for the capture and for the cleaning. Fantastic program.

With larger files you get the chance to clean more deeply. You first clean the surface for the whole disk, feeding a sample and making Audacity to clean similar noise, and then go click by click, pop by pop making them vanish.

You can do that automatically, but I do not recommend it if you want top quality.

Re: Rip 'em, then clean 'em?

Posted: 17 Apr 2019 01:42
by maxwellite
Geof777 wrote:
16 Apr 2019 15:50
I am about 100 years behind on all this - I still do this sort of thing as if it were tapes:
I record from record onto a CD recorder Deck and CD-RW - if I make a mistake I can re record the last track.
I either press a button for next track or queue up each track one at a time (yes back tracking!)
Once I have my CD-RW finished I finalise then make a permanent copy of the CD and/or rip to MP3 or WAV for back up storage - I cannot rip to Flac or play Flac as far as I know
I have no way to edit out noises and clicks, not have a way to record direct to the computer. I guess it would be easier to connect a Laptop.
TBH I am happy doing it this way, but every once in a while I feel it would be handy to be able to post edit...
I believe that you can import the WAV file into Audacity and then do the normal post-edit.

Re: Rip 'em, then clean 'em?

Posted: 17 Apr 2019 02:25
by carlmart
Of course.

Re: Rip 'em, then clean 'em?

Posted: 17 Apr 2019 16:11
by Geof777
Ok I will maybe seek someone who has used Audacity and see if I can get a copy somewhere

Re: Rip 'em, then clean 'em?

Posted: 17 Apr 2019 16:14
by Geof777
carlmart wrote:
16 Apr 2019 19:23
There are two key electronic factors in capturing LPs: the RIAA preamp you plug your turntable to, and the analog to digital converter (ADC).

Both should be high quality to make it worth it, as well as the turntable/cartridge. Both should also be external, so it's really no difference if you use a desktop or a laptop. You shouldn't use the computer's internal ADC, it has poor analog input ICs, as well as the ADC chip is not as good as it should be.

If you a have a quality audio card then you can use a desktop though.

On my first capture I used an external ADC which is affordable and well regarded: the Behringer UCA202. It's the minimum you should use. You plug the RIAA preamp into it and go through USB into the computer.

It has recording limitations: 16-bit and 48KHz only. The advantage is that files are not large. The higher you go in bit rate and sampling, the bigger the file size. Though that is not a problem nowadays.

But I intend to experiment with bit rates up 24-bit and 196 KHz sampling, and until I buy an external dedicated ADC I will use my Tascam high resolution recorder, which can record with such quality on memory cards. Then I just copy them to my computer.

I did use Audacity for the capture and for the cleaning. Fantastic program.

With larger files you get the chance to clean more deeply. You first clean the surface for the whole disk, feeding a sample and making Audacity to clean similar noise, and then go click by click, pop by pop making them vanish.

You can do that automatically, but I do not recommend it if you want top quality.
Thanks for that
If I recorded to a CD could I import that to Audacity - the Desktop is not all hat close to the Deck or stereo..

Re: Rip 'em, then clean 'em?

Posted: 17 Apr 2019 16:15
by Geof777
Sunwire wrote:
16 Apr 2019 18:30
Geof777 wrote:
16 Apr 2019 15:50
I am about 100 years behind on all this - I still do this sort of thing as if it were tapes:
I record from record onto a CD recorder Deck and CD-RW - if I make a mistake I can re record the last track.
I either press a button for next track or queue up each track one at a time (yes back tracking!)
Once I have my CD-RW finished I finalise then make a permanent copy of the CD and/or rip to MP3 or WAV for back up storage - I cannot rip to Flac or play Flac as far as I know
I have no way to edit out noises and clicks, not have a way to record direct to the computer. I guess it would be easier to connect a Laptop.
TBH I am happy doing it this way, but every once in a while I feel it would be handy to be able to post edit...
Are you using a desktop computer?
If so, it's much easier to record directly to your hard disk.
Laptops usually have more limited inputs and outputs compared to a desktop machine.
Download a free copy of Audacity and start playing with it. It's fun!
https://www.audacityteam.org/download/
Thanks for the link I will download it

Re: Rip 'em, then clean 'em?

Posted: 27 Jun 2019 22:28
by isidroco
zlartibartfast wrote:
07 Mar 2019 01:22
I agree: FLAC = WAV in terms of sonic accuracy, but here's my reasoning. I need a backup, and I have a lot of disk space so I don't need to compress the file for storage.
Actually WAV is a lot worse than flac for backups as it doesn't have inner CRC chechings to spot out corruption. It's better to have Flacs on two separate backups. MD5 checksums are unnecessary thanks to the flac Test option. File corruption is not so rare (I once found a system which corrupted one byte every 10Gb due to bad cable). Always verify CD/DVD backups. Another good mesure is to have some redundancy files to reconstruct any damaged/missing info: http://www.ice-graphics.com/ICEECC/IndexE.html

Flacs are extremely fast to open (not so fast to save them).

Re: Rip 'em, then clean 'em?

Posted: 28 Jun 2019 01:36
by Sunwire
You have plenty of disk space NOW.
You will use it up.
Save to FLAC now and you won't have to do it later when you need the space.

Re: Rip 'em, then clean 'em?

Posted: 28 Jun 2019 01:41
by Sunwire
Geof777 wrote:
16 Apr 2019 15:50

I record from record onto a CD recorder Deck and CD-RW - if I make a mistake I can re record the last track.
I either press a button for next track or queue up each track one at a time (yes back tracking!)
Once I have my CD-RW finished I finalise then make a permanent copy of the CD and/or rip to MP3 or WAV for back up storage - I cannot rip to Flac or play Flac as far as I know
If you are recording to CD-RW, you are introducing errors and reducing the quality of your recording.
I use foobar2000 to playback digital files. It can play FLAC and pretty much any other format.
FLAC saves space with zero sonic degradation.

Re: Rip 'em, then clean 'em?

Posted: 29 Jun 2019 00:04
by JoeE SP9
Sunwire wrote:
28 Jun 2019 01:41
If you are recording to CD-RW, you are introducing errors and reducing the quality of your recording.
Where in the world did you get such an erroneous idea? As far as recording and playback is concerned there is no difference between a CD-R and a CD-RW.

If you use something like EAC and rip to FLAC or WAV you will get bit perfect copies. The only difference is that FLAC files are smaller and can't be recorded to a CD-R/CD-RW for playback on a standard CD/DVD player.