Rip 'em, then clean 'em?

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Tweak-O-Matic
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Re: Rip 'em, then clean 'em?

Post by Tweak-O-Matic » 23 Mar 2019 18:43

After I rip a track I run it through Clickrepair (http://www.clickrepair.net/software_inf ... epair.html).
Nowadays at a very modest 20% setting as I've found it gets rid of pops and doesn't affect the sound quality.

I rip the original file using Adobe Audition CC, and then import it back after Clickrepair, select a few seconds of "silence" at the beginning, do a noise profile and then apply the noise reduction throughout the track. Works very well. At last I adjust levels if needed and trim the start and end with a amplitude fade in or fade out if needed.

Makes for very good sounding vinyl rip tracks.

All is done in the 32-bit 192 kHz domain BTW, and then downconverted to 24 bit FLAC for listening purposes.
My input noise floor is around -63 dB, but depends on the input volume setting on the sound card (a Motu Ultralite mk4) of course.

zlartibartfast
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Re: Rip 'em, then clean 'em?

Post by zlartibartfast » 23 Mar 2019 20:03

Well I've determined that the turntable is operating within spec, and the noise that I've been detecting was partly due to old cartridge wires in the headshell (now replaced). The noise I'm still seeing is likely coming from the ADC I've been using - the M-Audio Duo - and the cables connecting it. The Duo is a Mic-Line preamp with USB, and it's 20 years old (no support for anything newer than WinXP).

So time to upgrade. I'll be trying out a Pro-Ject Phonobox DS2 USB next week. If I can eliminate the 47Hz noise with a better ADC, then I won't be needing to run a noise-reduction process as much as I have been.

KentT
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Re: Rip 'em, then clean 'em?

Post by KentT » 24 Mar 2019 14:35

zlartibartfast wrote:
07 Mar 2019 00:00
Anyone go to the trouble of "cleaning" their files after recoding their vinyl?

I do sometimes. I run a noise reduction process to get rid of my system's noise floor (the background noise with the motor running but no stylus in the groove).

Then I reduce the volume on the lead in POP by 50%.

Then if I find some bad clicks or pops that are really overpowering I manually draw them out of the curve. Typically I leave in the standard surface noises that one expects to have from vinyl.

Once I'm happy I finish by normalizing to 99.5 db, and save as FLAC for myself, MP3 for my wife.

I also keep the original rip file as WAV, with no editing, just in case....

Fire at Will!
No, clean records (the best copies available). Use correct stylus. Set levels, use as little declicking and NR as possible, none preferred when possible. My turntable is quiet mechanically. I use the best equipment I can afford which sounds excellent and is reliable.

JoeE SP9
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Re: Rip 'em, then clean 'em?

Post by JoeE SP9 » 29 Mar 2019 16:55

I don't believe in normalizing audio files. Everything is not supposed to be the same level.

zlartibartfast
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Re: Rip 'em, then clean 'em?

Post by zlartibartfast » 29 Mar 2019 18:28

I like my absolute peaks to match from one record to the next.

I should add that the new phono pre/ADC box has eliminated the 47Hz noise I was picking up. Now I don't need to apply the NR algorithm, as the noise floor is down below 80db (until the needle drops)

Better Gear = Better Recordings

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Re: Rip 'em, then clean 'em?

Post by Sunwire » 29 Mar 2019 21:30

JoeE SP9 wrote:
29 Mar 2019 16:55
I don't believe in normalizing audio files. Everything is not supposed to be the same level.
If you're normalizing the peak level, you aren't necessarily making the perceived level the same as any other recording. Every recording has a unique relationship between peak and average level.

zlartibartfast
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Re: Rip 'em, then clean 'em?

Post by zlartibartfast » 29 Mar 2019 21:39

yes you're right - it's not that I want to have all music the same volume (RMS level); I want the peaks to be at the same level so I know that my amp setting will not be to hot for some records and too cool for others.

If I see major differences in the average volume, I take that into consideration when normalizing.

It saves me having to adjust the volume knob on the amp from one album to the next

Sunwire
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Re: Rip 'em, then clean 'em?

Post by Sunwire » 30 Mar 2019 15:48

I use foobar for playback and use replaygain per album so there are no big surprises that send me leaping to grab the volume knob.
I normalize the whole album at once before splitting the tracks. That way, the level differences from track to track are retained as the artist created them.

JoeE SP9
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Re: Rip 'em, then clean 'em?

Post by JoeE SP9 » 30 Mar 2019 19:28

zlartibartfast wrote:
29 Mar 2019 21:39
yes you're right - it's not that I want to have all music the same volume (RMS level); I want the peaks to be at the same level so I know that my amp setting will not be to hot for some records and too cool for others.

If I see major differences in the average volume, I take that into consideration when normalizing.

It saves me having to adjust the volume knob on the amp from one album to the next
I guess I'm different. I don't want all those peaks to be the same level. IMO/E The bass drum hit at the end of the firebird should be louder to me than the last chord of any pop/rock selection.

zlartibartfast
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Re: Rip 'em, then clean 'em?

Post by zlartibartfast » 30 Mar 2019 20:00

Sunwire explained it better then I did.

I'm not changing individual tracks of a record; in fact, I don't split the tracks at all. I record each side of the LP, make sure the levels of the 2 sides match, then join them to create one file containing both sides for uninterrupted playback.

And, because my new preamp/ADC has a level control, I find that I can get the record levels set to the 1/2 db below peak that I want to achieve. With this feature I probably won't need to normalize in software any more.

Bob Dillon
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Re: Rip 'em, then clean 'em?

Post by Bob Dillon » 30 Mar 2019 22:05

JoeE SP9 wrote:
29 Mar 2019 16:55
I don't believe in normalizing audio files. Everything is not supposed to be the same level.
1) Record the LP as one file.
2) A run through ClickRepair if need be. I favor light settings.
3) Normalize entire file so that peak levels as they were (relative to other tracks) are retained.
4) Once in awhile a little EQ sweetening may be used, conservatively.
5) Split files into individual tracks, manually. It's a tedious process that I hate, but I've yet to find an automated splitter
that performs flawlessly, e.g. doesn't split one of the songs in half, no matter how hard I try to optimize it's settings.


That's all. I don't use any other "noise reduction" gewgaws because they are unnecessary and leave behind other sonic artifacts.

Sunwire
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Re: Rip 'em, then clean 'em?

Post by Sunwire » 31 Mar 2019 00:34

JoeE SP9 wrote:
30 Mar 2019 19:28

I guess I'm different. I don't want all those peaks to be the same level. IMO/E The bass drum hit at the end of the firebird should be louder to me than the last chord of any pop/rock selection.
The peaks WON'T all be the same level.
The normalization just adjusts the level so the LOUDEST peak is set to a particular level.
If you want the bass drum hit at the end of the Firebird to be louder than something else, just normalize the peak level of the Firebird a little louder than whatever else you're concerned about.

But since the maximum level that can be safely cut into vinyl is fixed, is the Firebird bass drum *really* louder than the peak of any pop/rock selection? I doubt it.

But if I was listening to the Firebird, I'd probably turn up the volume anyway, because the average level of the music is lower than for nearly any pop/rock music. It's a very dynamic piece. Most pop/rock is not so dynamic.

JoeE SP9
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Re: Rip 'em, then clean 'em?

Post by JoeE SP9 » 31 Mar 2019 18:09

Sunwire wrote:
31 Mar 2019 00:34
But if I was listening to the Firebird, I'd probably turn up the volume anyway, because the average level of the music is lower than for nearly any pop/rock music. It's a very dynamic piece. Most pop/rock is not so dynamic.
Yes, the average level of classical/jazz is usually lower with a lot more dynamic range than pop/rock. The wider dynamic range of the music is why I don't want the peaks to be normalized. The peaks from Coltrane playing Giant Steps are not as loud as the peaks in The Firebird or the 1812. They shouldn't be.

FWIW: I've ripped to FLAC only a very few (10?) of my (1K+LP's. It's time consuming and tedious. CD's are a different thing. All of my CD's reside on multiple HDD's as FLAC files. I can rip a dozen or more CD's in the time it takes to rip, de-click/de-noise and tag the selections on an LP. In any case, I'm used to using a TT and will continue to do so.

FWIW: I'm waiting for the new Schiit TT.

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Re: Rip 'em, then clean 'em?

Post by carlmart » 06 Apr 2019 14:51

Several months ago I had my first go at high quality LP capture, using a Thorens TD-150 + Linn Basik tonearm + Shure V-15 cartridge. The MM preamp was a Luxman 5C50 and the ADC converter a Behringer UCA202.

The LP was a '90s tango music dual LP that was never released in CD, so I wanted to process it later. Then comparing the resulting CD with original LP setup. The latter has not been done yet, but we should soon. In any case the results were spectacular.

Audacity was used for capture and processing, though I would love to try others. Capture was done at the Behringer's fixed option of 16-bit, 48KHz settings. Higher rates will demand a different ADC box, which one I still don't know.

On each track first I cleaned the surface noise, by using a music-less sample piece, feeding it in counter-phase to the whole track. It works perfectly. NEVER use any program's noise cleaner, as the processing will affect the recording completely.

After that I proceeded to patiently look for every click and pop, visually and audibly, and removed them one by one. It took me several days to clean it all.

There were some very small clicks that I could never find visually, which would probably show on a higher bit-rate/sampling recording.

In any case the final recording was superb. You just have to compare the original captured recording with the processed one and listen how the latter sounds so much better.

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Re: Rip 'em, then clean 'em?

Post by zlartibartfast » 06 Apr 2019 19:40

carlmart wrote:
06 Apr 2019 14:51
every click and pop, visually and audibly, and removed them one by one. It took me several days to clean it all.

There were some very small clicks that I could never find visually, which would probably show on a higher bit-rate/sampling recording.
That's a lot of work! For me, I only go to that much trouble if I can't get a replacement disc. But I have done it a few times - genuinely painful!