Is Audacity or Adobe Audition better for vinyl ripping?

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RJDG14
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Is Audacity or Adobe Audition better for vinyl ripping?

Post by RJDG14 » 30 Sep 2018 16:02

I took out an Adobe Creative Cloud student subscription (about £15 a month) as I use Photoshop and Illustrator a lot in my graphic design A-level class. The package also comes with Adobe Audition which has a lot of similarity with Audacity and I was wondering it it's any better or not. From what I can tell it's very similar and I prefer the interface of Audacity so I'm probably gonna continue using it instead of Audition, but it's possible that it contains additional features I'm not aware of.

mockduck
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Re: Is Audacity or Adobe Audition better for vinyl ripping?

Post by mockduck » 30 Sep 2018 21:41

Adobe Audition does have some mastering and effects tools that are better than Audacity, but if all you are doing is a basic dub over, normalization, and save as, Audacity will be fine.

Dimal
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Re: Is Audacity or Adobe Audition better for vinyl ripping?

Post by Dimal » 01 Oct 2018 07:13

Audition also has better ASIO compatibility in Windows...

Mal.

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Re: Is Audacity or Adobe Audition better for vinyl ripping?

Post by rkay5 » 05 Nov 2018 23:10

I second Dimal post if using Windows Adobe Audition gives you ASIO and 24bit ,Audacity can't record in 24bit in Windows.

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Re: Is Audacity or Adobe Audition better for vinyl ripping?

Post by balky » 17 Nov 2018 17:15

You will hear the difference in recording on an average mid-fi system, if you care at all...

Except they're both recording tools, it's actually not a complete apples to apples comparison.

When you record with Audacity on Windows, your audio gets sampled at least twice, once by the Windows audio subsystem, and once by Audacity itself, and you end up with an audio file that sounds thin, or muddy low frequency or exaggerated high frequency...

If you do the same the on Adobe Audition, using ASIO, the audio file you get will depend totally on your ADC.
ASIO allows Adobe to bypass the Windows audio subsystem, and I can tell you, that means quite a lot if you care about retaining the source audio quality as best as your gear can allow

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Re: Is Audacity or Adobe Audition better for vinyl ripping?

Post by bernard1 » 17 Nov 2018 18:03

balky wrote:
17 Nov 2018 17:15
When you record with Audacity on Windows, your audio gets sampled at least twice, once by the Windows audio subsystem, and once by Audacity itself, and you end up with an audio file that sounds thin, or muddy low frequency or exaggerated high frequency...
Oh yes, like the recordings acetechhd made with audacity in this post :
https://www.vinylengine.com/turntable_f ... 2&t=108073

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Re: Is Audacity or Adobe Audition better for vinyl ripping?

Post by R_Polli » 18 Nov 2018 15:22

Just use Audacity on Linux (like me) and you do not have to worry about windows any more :mrgreen:

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Re: Is Audacity or Adobe Audition better for vinyl ripping?

Post by balky » 21 Nov 2018 07:00

Audacity on Linux is fantastic if you're able to set up a direct ALSA connection... if you're using Pulseaudio or JACK, you're still at the mercy of the audio subsystem re-sampling audio, and Audacity a second time...
Audacity on Linux, records at true 24 bit, compared to Audacity on Windows which is limited to 16 bit.

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Re: Is Audacity or Adobe Audition better for vinyl ripping?

Post by R_Polli » 22 Nov 2018 17:23

Just now, Audacity under Linux and of course ALSA

Bildschirmfoto vom 2018-11-22 18-13-44.png
(494.25 KiB) Downloaded 283 times

jspink
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Re: Is Audacity or Adobe Audition better for vinyl ripping?

Post by jspink » 22 Nov 2018 20:47

Windows 10 and Audacity are perfectly capable of recording in 24-bit depth, if your sound card drivers supports WASAPI. I do this all the time and it works perfectly. I have an Acer Swift laptop, Windows 10 Pro and M-Audio M-Track 2x2M USB sound device. All my vinyl captures are done at 24bit/96kHz.

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Re: Is Audacity or Adobe Audition better for vinyl ripping?

Post by balky » 24 Nov 2018 06:54

jspink wrote:
22 Nov 2018 20:47
Windows 10 and Audacity are perfectly capable of recording in 24-bit depth, if your sound card drivers supports WASAPI. I do this all the time and it works perfectly. I have an Acer Swift laptop, Windows 10 Pro and M-Audio M-Track 2x2M USB sound device. All my vinyl captures are done at 24bit/96kHz.
Unless things have changed, Audacity can only record at 16-bit depth on Windows... Even if you select 24-bit depth for recording, on Windows, Audacity will record at 16 bit and pad with zeroes... there was thread about this a long time ago on the Avsforum... the guy compared files from Audacity on Windows to Linux, the Linux size was much larger.

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Re: Is Audacity or Adobe Audition better for vinyl ripping?

Post by jspink » 24 Nov 2018 08:19

Things must have changed then, when I record at 24-bit and inspect the files, there is no padding with zeroes.

On Windows, if you open a command prompt and you run the command:-
flac -ac somefile.flac >out.txt
and open the output file in a text editor, there is a line which reports 'wasted_bits'
If the file has been padded with zeroes, then wasted_bits=8 otherwise 'wasted_bits=0'
I have tried this on a couple of files, one which I recorded at 24-bit and one which I recorded at 16-bit then converted to 24-bit with dbPoweramp. The converted file had 'wasted_bits=8' whereas the other had 'wasted_bits=0'

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Re: Is Audacity or Adobe Audition better for vinyl ripping?

Post by balky » 25 Nov 2018 18:01

jspink wrote:
24 Nov 2018 08:19
Things must have changed then, when I record at 24-bit and inspect the files, there is no padding with zeroes.

On Windows, if you open a command prompt and you run the command:-
flac -ac somefile.flac >out.txt
and open the output file in a text editor, there is a line which reports 'wasted_bits'
If the file has been padded with zeroes, then wasted_bits=8 otherwise 'wasted_bits=0'
I have tried this on a couple of files, one which I recorded at 24-bit and one which I recorded at 16-bit then converted to 24-bit with dbPoweramp. The converted file had 'wasted_bits=8' whereas the other had 'wasted_bits=0'
Ok, that was a misuse of the term "padding" on my side... sorry about that, but if you really want to confirm this, you can also use any recording program on Windows that supports ASIO.
Do a 24 bit depth recording with the program using ASIO (24 bit depth of course) and compare the resulting file size to the 24 bit recording with Audacity.
That should say enough.

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Re: Is Audacity or Adobe Audition better for vinyl ripping?

Post by jspink » 26 Nov 2018 09:58

@balky,
Ok, my final attempt to convince you ...
I have 3 files,
  • File 1 is a straightforward CD rip at 16/44.1, size is 17785 KB
    File 2 is the same file but converted to 24bits, size is 18028 KB
    File 3 is a vinyl rip of the same track done at 24bit/44.1kHz in Audacity with WASAPI, size is 32399 KB
As you can see, file 3 (24-bit) is almost twice the size of the other two files.

I also used the Flac analysis option (-a) via a bash script with the resulting output
16/16 bits file1CD16.flac
16/24 bits file1CD24.flac
24/24 bits file2Vinyl.flac

This tells me that my vinyl capture is using all 24-bits.

For interest, if you are a Linux person, the bash script I used to inspect the files is shown below.

Code: Select all

#!/bin/bash

me="${0##*/}"

if [ -w "$TMPDIR" ]; then
	tdir="$TMPDIR"
elif [ -w '/tmp' ]; then
	tdir='/tmp'
elif [ -w "$HOME" ]; then
	tdir="$HOME"
elif [ -w "$PWD" ]; then
	tdir="$PWD"
else
	echo "$me: error: can't find a writable directory for creating the temporary file" 1>&2 ; exit 1
fi

tf="$( TMPDIR="$tdir" mktemp "${tdir}/${me}.XXXX" 2>/dev/null )"
if [ -z "$tf" ]; then
	echo "$me: error: can't create temporary file" 1>&2 ; exit 1
fi

checkbits ()
{
	local bps abps tbps=0 n=0
	bps="$( ./metaflac --show-bps "$1" )"
	./flac -ac "$1" 2>/dev/null | fgrep 'wasted_bits' | cut -d '=' -f 3 | cut -f 1 > "$tf"
	while read wb; do
		tbps=$(( tbps + ( bps - wb ) ))
		((n++))
	done < "$tf"
	abps=$(( ( ( tbps * 10 / n) + 5 ) / 10 )) # (* 10 + 5) / 10 for proper rounding 
	printf "%2u/%2u bits\t%s\n" "$abps" "$bps" "$1"
}

for f in "$@"; do
	case "$f" in
		*.flac) checkbits "$f" ;;
		*) continue ;;
	esac
done

rm -f "$tf"


balky
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Re: Is Audacity or Adobe Audition better for vinyl ripping?

Post by balky » 26 Nov 2018 12:28

jspink wrote:
26 Nov 2018 09:58
@balky,
Ok, my final attempt to convince you ...
I have 3 files,
  • File 1 is a straightforward CD rip at 16/44.1, size is 17785 KB
    File 2 is the same file but converted to 24bits, size is 18028 KB
    File 3 is a vinyl rip of the same track done at 24bit/44.1kHz in Audacity with WASAPI, size is 32399 KB
As you can see, file 3 (24-bit) is almost twice the size of the other two files.

I also used the Flac analysis option (-a) via a bash script with the resulting output
16/16 bits file1CD16.flac
16/24 bits file1CD24.flac
24/24 bits file2Vinyl.flac

This tells me that my vinyl capture is using all 24-bits.

For interest, if you are a Linux person, the bash script I used to inspect the files is shown below.

Code: Select all

#!/bin/bash

me="${0##*/}"

if [ -w "$TMPDIR" ]; then
	tdir="$TMPDIR"
elif [ -w '/tmp' ]; then
	tdir='/tmp'
elif [ -w "$HOME" ]; then
	tdir="$HOME"
elif [ -w "$PWD" ]; then
	tdir="$PWD"
else
	echo "$me: error: can't find a writable directory for creating the temporary file" 1>&2 ; exit 1
fi

tf="$( TMPDIR="$tdir" mktemp "${tdir}/${me}.XXXX" 2>/dev/null )"
if [ -z "$tf" ]; then
	echo "$me: error: can't create temporary file" 1>&2 ; exit 1
fi

checkbits ()
{
	local bps abps tbps=0 n=0
	bps="$( ./metaflac --show-bps "$1" )"
	./flac -ac "$1" 2>/dev/null | fgrep 'wasted_bits' | cut -d '=' -f 3 | cut -f 1 > "$tf"
	while read wb; do
		tbps=$(( tbps + ( bps - wb ) ))
		((n++))
	done < "$tf"
	abps=$(( ( ( tbps * 10 / n) + 5 ) / 10 )) # (* 10 + 5) / 10 for proper rounding 
	printf "%2u/%2u bits\t%s\n" "$abps" "$bps" "$1"
}

for f in "$@"; do
	case "$f" in
		*.flac) checkbits "$f" ;;
		*) continue ;;
	esac
done

rm -f "$tf"

:D :D :D

Another way of putting this is if Audacity has direct hardware access to your sound card (on Windows) then the 24 bit depth capture will be a true 24 bit capture.
I don't know if WASAPI truly bypasses the Windows audio subsystem, you can never trust Microsoft... :D

I do understand your argument, but with Audacity set to sample at 24 bit depth, whatever comes into Audacity will be re-sampled and "labelled" 24 bit.
Your script will confirm this as long as it is not able to see the incoming sampling rates before the data hits Audacity.

Nevertheless, I guess we have to leave it as is...

The most important thing is to enjoy your rip anyway...

Cheers...

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