3 Different Systems - Surprising Results

[beacher6]

Music listening is split 50/50 vinyl and through the net via a DAC, Pandora etc. Taste is primarily lite jazz, old country and a mix of 50-60s.
I used only one record for this test, Julio Iglesia. I selected it because I am familiar with it, its easy listening, and has a nice blend of male/female vocalists and instrumentals.
System 1- Mono Pilot tube console 1040D, AA-903B integrated amp, Gerrard RC88/4 changer. Not sure of the cartridge but the new stylus is what a GE cartridge calls out.
System 2- Paco tube integrated amp, Technics Sl-1900 with a Shure V15 VN35MR, Jensen Tri-ettes
System 3- JVC SS R-S7 ( I bought this new in 1981 and its very under-rated- I can't seem to part with it while a Fisher 400, Sansui Au20000, Proton D540 and others have come and gone-its a great 2nd do everything receiver handling the 4 OHM speakers) Elac 50H II turntable with a used Pickering D1507DJ cartridge I had laying around for years, and GR Research Av/2 speakers.
System 4 is in another location so the record wasn't played there. Its ADCOM separates from memory, a 545 Integrated amp, Denon 51F turntable with a Grado cartridge, custom speakers, and 3 Spica TC-50.
Results- I always enjoyed listening to the record on the Pilot. Nice warm laid back sound.
I listened to it next on the JVC with my used Pickering cartridge. I was amazed how good it sounded. The clarity and detail was amazing.
I was saving the best for last as the Shure V15 TypeIII VN35MR cartridge has always been my favorite. The results was not what I expected. Its still very nice but kind of laid back, not as musical and the highs and lows not as tight or projecting.
Why did system 2 win ? The GR speakers are better but the only thing I can come up with is the ELAC with that Pickering cartridge that was originally on the Technics I replaced with the Shure V15 type III years ago. I had other turntables connected to system 2 over the years and they never came close to sounding as good.

[Alec124c41]

IMHO the Sure V-15 III is a nice cartridge, that sounds best in a light arm. The separation and "air" are not outstanding. Thirty years ago I replaced mine with a Grado that was 1/3 the price, and the Grado blew it away.
Loading the Shure at 62 - 68 kOhms might help.

Cheers,
Alec

[beacher6]

What did you mean by loading the Shure at 62-68kOhms and the "air" is not outstanding ?

[Alec124c41]

Standard inputs are loaded at 47 kOhms.
Listening to the Grado FTE +1 after the V15/3 on my old Lenco, there was more air, i.e. the sound-stage was more open, because of greater channel separation and more extended high-frequency response. I find the perception of apparent space to be more obvious than trying to distinguish differences in frequency response.
Loading at 62K apparently improves the high-frequency response. There is an extensive thread on cartridge loading.
Some people think that Shure cartridges are the gold standard. I am not one of them, pleasant though they be.

Cheers,
Alec

[beacher6]

Thank you for the explanation Alec. Sound stage or as you say "air" is indeed outstanding for the V15/3 on my Spica-TC50. Regarding cartridge loading maybe its technically over my head. All I can say about that is I have owned the same V15/3 VN35MR combination since the late 90s and played it on 4 different turntables and 6-8 different receivers/amps/integrated amps both SS and tube and it sounded good on anything connected to it. I don't believe Shure is the gold standard still owning Grado, Stanton, Pickering,and Elac cartridges, they all have their own place depending what your playing it on and the type music your listening to at that time. One of these days I may pick-up a Denon DL-103 for my Denon turntable. I can say this, I am disappointed with the new Shure M97xE I tried on 3 turntables on 3 different systems. The M97xE pales in comparison to the v15/3 VN35MR.

[Bob in STL]

Standard inputs are loaded at 47 kOhms.
Listening to the Grado FTE +1 after the V15/3 on my old Lenco, there was more air, i.e. the sound-stage was more open, because of greater channel separation and more extended high-frequency response. I find the perception of apparent space to be more obvious than trying to distinguish differences in frequency response.
Loading at 62K apparently improves the high-frequency response. There is an extensive thread on cartridge loading.
Some people think that Shure cartridges are the gold standard. I am not one of them, pleasant though they be.

Cheers,
Alec

Well Alec my V15-III sounds awesome with the very light SME 3009 series improved tonearm. I have the one with the fixed headshell which has a lower mass than the removeable headshell version. Using a Jico SAS has taken it to another level. I know I am somewhat limited in cartridge selection with this tonearm but I am very happy with it and cannot see changing it.

I load it at 47K and I set the capacitive load at 470 pf total. I measured the phono leads and tone arm wire to be 150pf. I add in the remaining 320pf with my phono stage switches. This is a good combination for me.

Never tried 62k on the V15-III but I have tried 62k on the M97xE and it improves things quite a bit.

cheers, Bob

[Alec124c41]

I have to say that a V-15, with an SAS stylus, on an SME 3009 II improved, sounds better than I have ever heard it sound.

Cheers,
Alec

[Jim Leach]

Glad to see the old Alec (not Alex- sorry about that!) back.