Robgil's bits.

[robgil]

Nice and basic.

[satanfriendly]

And very nice as well Rob. What speakers do you have on the end of the amp?

I wish I could get my Logic adjustment bolts to sit low like yours which gives me the impression my springs are either shot or I have the wrong springs in the wrong place. I don't suppose you know the order of the spring size by any chance? I am away from home at the moment but I believe there are two different sizes (other than the great large object in the middle) and that it matters which goes where. It may help one of the issues I am having.

Also note you have different feet to my own, but then again at the time of the Logic; manufacturers changed specs at whim.

[robgil]

There were three configurations for the DM101 as far as I am aware, first off was the version with no main spring, there for the levelling springs had to be stiffer.
Then the main spring was added for stability but the stiff levelling springs were left in. They then removed the stiff levelling springs for softer ones like mine.
This is possibly why my feet are also different from yours, two different versions of the same table.
There is very little about all this on the web but if you look for it there are snippets of info and when put together all add up.
I have heard a lot about worn springs on the Logic but when I researched into it it seems they were built like this, so someone who had the version with the stiffer springs may think the version with the softer springs is like it is because of worn springs, although the springs may wear out in time I doubt they would wear out to the visual difference between your and mine, if that were the case my springs would no longer be coiled tightly when not under tension.

I think the smaller springs go under the arm, if there is only two different lengths then the single pair will go under the arm.

[robgil]

. What speakers do you have on the end of the amp?

Speakers are just a pair of old Mission M71 on two Atacama stands, I filled the stands with childrens play sand, a very dry , very fine sand and cheap as well.

[satanfriendly]

Thank you very much for the information Rob. Most appreciated. I have ordered a large selection of mixed springs so I hope amongst them are suitable replacements. I can only but try and I needed the springs for a few other projects anyway.

Cheers

[MonkeyBoy]

Mighty pretty stuff you have there.

[robgil]

Thanks Monkeyboy.

I think it's time for an upgrade , or at least I did so I bought some chord odyssey 2 speaker cables.
Not a good idea, too bright , no bass but otherwise very good.

So , what do you guys think? I have been playing with the cabling idea, Audioorigami was going to be next for an internal arm rewire then I was going to study my options for an external cable.

What would you guys do?

I have sinse put a Logic Datum 2 arm on the table and this didnt make the leaps and bounds I was expecting it to, so what is my weak link? Amp , speakers?

[satanfriendly]

'You could try putting the suspension adjustment bolts back on the Logic' (top photo)

The front end is nearly there and personally I think some weakness might lie in the Goldring. I've never really liked their tonal balance. My last play with a similar Roksan Chorus Black didn't really do anything for me. It lacked the bite, attack and detail I like, so I gave it away to another VE member. It was all a little too 'dull'.

Something down the road of a Denon DL304 will offer more here. Although it is low output. Dig around secondhand and there are some great MC bargains to be found. Dynavector 20X2, Benz ACE, AT OC9?

I am not so sure cables are going to make the sort of difference you seem to be edgeing at. The next logical step for me would be the amp (although I can't make out what you have there) or the speakers. In respect, my son uses a pair of older Missions and I always think they sound very nice. Certainly have the balls.

What sound are you looking for might be a place to start.

[robgil]

I think the sound sounds too dull , as you say it could be the cart but then again it could be a few things. Imaging is quite dull and lifeless. Like the bias on a tape deck being out a little.

Amp is a wharfedale 2050a, about 20 odd years old so may be due a service/recap or more. Or less, I know the volume pot is iffy but intermittant.

Speakers are Mission M71, old but they do sound OK ish.

I am still toying with the idea of having Ten Audio upgrade the amp and I will be having the arm rewired at some point with a new external cable.

[satanfriendly]

Other than what I mentioned about the cartridge (but that was my opinion of the Goldring more than anything), I think your bottleneck more than likely sits with the amplifier.

Not associated with them, but www.usedhifishop.co.uk have some competent amps starting with some Rotels at reasonable starting prices. Personally I think a change here could give more control of the quality of the signal to the speakers.

If could try a different amp before deciding I am sure you would see a change in the general direction you may be looking for.

[bogle111]

'You could try putting the suspension adjustment bolts back on the Logic' (top photo)

The front end is nearly there and personally I think some weakness might lie in the Goldring. I've never really liked their tonal balance.

Once again I find myself agreeing with Satan about the Goldring - laidback nearly bloated.

When that Wharfedale amp was made, their speakers sounded a bit tizzy, so the manufacturers probably tailored the response of the amp.

When selling gear years ago I would register the overall sound of a bit of kit, laidback, forward, bright and then ensure that if putting things together, I would balance one with another.

Always did like the Logic, but never owned one.

Regards
Pete

[Oracle_309]

Just the way that I like systems to be. I do have a few of comments:

• Play-sand is great stuff. It is sterile and absolutely dry when it is in a sealed bag.
• The little Mission speakers were excellent the last time I heard a pair, quite musical and capable of some "soundstaging" as well.
• The amp may be the weakest link, or as stated the cartridge.
• As far as a cartridge goes, I defer to those that have a similar turntable. I do have my faves, but many don't like my preference (Grado) for various reasons (but a relatively small amount of Mu-metal can take care of any possible electric hum from the motor getting to the Grado cartridges)
• I would suggest the use of some sort of isolating stand or shelf for the turntable (as a minimum). What it can do is what good speaker stands can do for speakers.
• Prior to buying any cabling, I would suggest that you optimize what you have and purchase a good integrated amplifier. Then consider cabling.
• For tonearm wiring, I have tried going from tonearm to RCA outputs. It works, but a single continuous run from cartridge pins to amplifier input has always proved better. Again, I have my faves, but it is not what one might consider "mainstream" in the world of audiophilia. And of course it's too cheap to sound any good, and does require that you can solder as you must DIY in this instance.
• You might consider a DIY 'geddon or similar as a turntable motor power supply. If you can DIY, then you have the makings of an absolute killer front end

I know my "few comments" are quite a few, but nothing I've stated is breakthrough, unless you consider my el'cheapo tonearm wiring. The savings from that alone could take you a long way towards purchasing an improved amplifier.(on the linked site for used gear I saw a Quad 77 for £295 which I think is quite good. I am sure there are others out there at or near the same price that would be contenders.

Bogle111: Much viewing pleasure of the Canuck kind over there?

[robgil]

Do you guys think having the Wharfedale amp upgraded might be a better idea than buying another?
I'm not loaded so would have to go second hand and may just end up with the same kind of dated and worn out amp.

I've read good things about Ten Audio's DAC's etc.

http://cgi.ebay.co.uk/Wharfedale-2050A- ... 7064118386


http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/TEN-Audio-upg ... 0787611399

This is what Gregor told me he would do to the amp.

Power supply bulk capacitors changed to BHC/Aerovox, power stage local power supply caps changed to Rubycon ZL (10 x the old value)
changes to NFB loop, changes to biasing circuit - in effect different bias settings
and a few more "secrets" (different volume pot, re-engineered voltage gain stage)
Nothing really wrong with soldering quality in Wharfedale, but very poor volume pot and a few more "bits" - it is a excellent performing amp, after upgrade easily leaving behind mid-end valve amps and most of transistor "stock" and I am not talking about £200 units

I dont know why the power caps need to be 10x the original value. The different volume pot is an Alps RK27 (blue velvet) and the gain stage and biasing circuit fettling seems like a good idea.

[robgil]

Picked up a Marantz CD6000OSE.LE for little money and am now rediscovering my CD collection.
I have decided to go ahead and rebuild the wharfedale at some point in the future, if it sounds OK then an arm rewire and new cartridge will follow.