Do some cd players really sound better?

[RED_One]

Yes they can sound different but I also think things have evened out far more than people realise or actually want to believe. I'll give the example between my Yamaha CDX 880 & a Samsung DVD D360 & there is no difference in sound quality between them. I've tried hard to find the differences but there just isn't. The Yamaha was Top of range & originally cost around £350 & the Samsung DVD £30.

[Shackman]

Yes they can sound different but I also think things have evened out far more than people realise or actually want to believe. I'll give the example between my Yamaha CDX 880 & a Samsung DVD D360 & there is no difference in sound quality between them. I've tried hard to find the differences but there just isn't. The Yamaha was Top of range & originally cost around £350 & the Samsung DVD £30.

Hello, this is my first post on this forum, I hope I haven't butted into this thread too rudely.
I came to this forum from a Google search because I saw that the cheap Samsung D360 has a 24/192k DAC and wondered whether anyone had tried it out or put it through its paces.

With regard your comparison of CD players, do you mind if I ask,what was the rest of your audio setup?

[Shadowman82]

I think there is a difference in sound quality between a cheap CD player and a higher end model , especially if you intend to hook it up using analog outputs and use the player's DAC . However I do think that those players that cost thousands of dollars ain't going to sound worlds better than one that costs a few hundred .

Plus I also feel that because so many CDs these days are mastered so poorly investing in a more expensive player is a tad redundant .

[Zebbo]

I agree on both counts. I think the law of diminishing returns cuts in very early with CD players. Having said that I did finish up with a Tube Tech Fusion which was a £2000 player and it was very, very good but now I don't have one at all!

[raphaelmabo]

Yes, there are differences. Some can be subtle, other big.
My first CD player was a NAD 5425. It had the Technics 18 bit MASH D/A converter.
Cheerful, nice. I used it with a NAD 320i and Dali 104 speakers. Very nice.

But funds allowed an amplifier upgrade to a NAD 306. Suddenly the NAD CD-player wasn't so hot anymore. It sounded thin. I tried a Micromega Junior (essentially a Philips with a reworked analogue output stage and 2x16 bit converters with 4 times oversampling) and it was faster, more agile, more fun, more rhythmic... I was happy!

Today I have an Alchemist TS-1D 24/96 D/A. I don't have the Micromega anymore, but a Marantz CD 63 KI Signature instead (this is a 1bit Bitstream player). The Alchemist has more neutral and full bodied sound, but the Marantz has something special to it. It is not neutral, it is colored but in a way that makes the music sound more musical... more fun. It's fun listening to it, very pleasant. And if I want the more neutral and drier sound I simply use the coax optical output to the Alchemist D/A.

An interesting note - cables. I have three cables, an Ixos budget cable, Audioquest Turquoise (8 years old) and a thick Xindak cable. The Xindak cable doesn't work at all with my Alchemist D/A, I have no answer to why. It sounds thin, boring, lacking body to the instruments, being too relaxed. The Audioquest Turquoise is a better match. And the Ixos also works, but it sounds a bit too warm, but very easy listening (I have it connected to my RDS tuner normally...). With the Marantz, the Xindak shines. The Audioquest just sounded too bright on the Marantz. But Xindak is the perfect match. The cheaper Ixos also works but is, again, a bit warm and relaxed..

And then there are those that says cables doesn't make a difference... well, they surely does in my system!

[natty_dredd]

Do pre-amps really sound different? CD players each have their own output stage (an amp like a pre-amp).

Do turntables sound different when you change power supply? Do turntables sound different when you change the material of the armboard? Do turntables sound different when you change the support/feet? etc etc etc

All CD players are designed in different ways - the way it reads the musical data, how it handles the data, how it turns the data into analogue signal, how the analogue signal is handled, how ground is isolated from interference how the laser signals and feedback loops are prevented from interfering with earths and other circuits etc etc etc

No different to finding differences in turntables/cartridges/phono stages.

Some people are happy with say a Thorens TD150 and a cheap MM cart, others need a super high-end deck with mega expensive MC cart.

Just get something that is satisfying enough for you..

I've always heard differences - just not as pronounced as when vinyl set-up and matching goes wrong. In other words, I think CD is harder to get wrong and so differences aren't always as noticable between SOME players.

Someone said their Yam CDX 880 was top of the range at £350? That can't be true can it or did they completely back out of the higher end of the market in the 90s?

[GlassWolf]

as noted, the short answer is yes. A lot has to do with the DAC quality and the power supply design. If you want proof of this, audition an Oppo BDP-95, or if you can find one, a Carver SD/A 390t Reference tube cd player.

[RED_One]

Someone said their Yam CDX 880 was top of the range at £350? That can't be true can it or did they completely back out of the higher end of the market in the 90s?

Yamaha always produced fine designs & as I understand it they saw little point in producing high Priced models - that is not to say that their high end models were of a lower class but merely reasonably priced.

http://www.vintage-hifi.at/

You can see models & years from the chart & yes for its year the 880 was top of line. Superseded by the 890 893 & 993

Yamaha produced their own DACs & it appears that these were used almost exclusively within their range with little difference between the lower end & high end.

Most of the later higher end models used the same DAC with a few minor variations / combination tweaks eg 880 890 893 & 993 - Using the YAC 514-F

http://vasiltech.nm.ru/CD-Player-DAC-Transport.htm

The current Yamaha CD players use BurrBrown or Wolfson (I forget which)
I would love to compare the new models with the 880 but they are outside my budget. As I understand it the 993 was pretty much their pinnacle but are now much sought after & unfortunately go for high prices on ebay.

[lini]

To be honest, I found the differences between most cd players I've heard or even owned more subtle than vast. At least that goes for home hifi players - while I found the differences a good bit more pronounced in the realm of portable cd players. Though the worst devices for cd playback I heard myself were some early, cheap "no name" dvd players.

However, strangely enough, those subtle differences can nevertheless make quite a significant difference regarding the overall enjoyability. I wouldn't spend much money for a high-end player, though - 'cause quite a few of the upper entry-level/lower middle-class models already sound pretty good, and many can be pretty easily tuned (output stage, clock...).

Greetings from Munich!

Manfred / lini

[youngdand]

I would have said no a few years back, but once i got my micromega stage 4,(for free from freecyle) i have to say, it is a world appart from the technics cd play i was using. The micromega although certainly a cd sound, is far less harsh than the technics, and more vinyl like. However it has sat unplayed for the best part of 18 months since getting back in to vinyl!

[Shadowman82]

I still think because so many CDs are badly mastered it's not worth it spending a fortune on a CD player . Even the best player can't save a butchered release . Maybe it can make it sound less offensive .

[GlassWolf]

I still think because so many CDs are badly mastered it's not worth it spending a fortune on a CD player . Even the best player can't save a butchered release . Maybe it can make it sound less offensive .

and that's exactly why I buy MFSL original master gold CDs.. same as my MFSL vinyl.
Buy quality media, play it on quality equipment.

[Shadowman82]

That's fine if what you want is available like that but most music I like wouldn't be .

[GlassWolf]

There should be a petition for major (and smaller) record labels tostop using so much audio compression on CDs they release, just to make them "louder."

If the music isn't loud enough, buy a bigger amp, don't compress the audio dynamics!

I agree that some things just never come out with a good mastering, but a lot of music has been well re-mastered, even if we had to wait for re-releases to get it.

I'm a very avid anti dynamic compression advocate.