Phono cable (Lyra)

[Josema]

Hi guys,

I am looking to improve harmonics and definition on my turntable looking for a new phono cable.

Could you recommend me anything interesting in the 500$ area?

My front end is SME 309, Lyra Skala, Jelco JAC.502, LFD MC-2 and Clearaudio Champion II.

What do you think about the Furutech Ag12? or Van den Hul D-501 silver?

Thanks.

[aardvarkash10]

#sigh#

Improve harmonics? What DO you mean?

[Ldg]

Why is there this repeating association between money and cables, as though the best way of specifying a cable is in $ ?? Because there is no other way, perhaps? And that really should be a big clue, methinks.

Buy some great vinyl, enjoy it, and keep the change.

[aardvarkash10]

hmmmn ok one manufacturer site gives this as evidence of performance:

"The sense of mechanical integrity of the Ag-12 Phono cable’s build is immediately apparent. Furutech Pure Transmission technology turns a macro lens on every element of power and signal transfer applying optimized engineering solutions to well-known problems such as contact resistance, grounding, EMI and RFI rejection, and using the best materials and processes available."

Ahem. Maybe it gained something in translation, but that reads like a collection of hyperbole fed through a babelfish to me.

The other gives this:

"To support the tone-arm and mixing console industry, this mat black HULLIFLEX ® jacketed balanced cable was designed: very flexible and with extremely good electrical qualities.
The D - 501 HYBRID is a cable with a very high shielding factor.
Sonically this is one of the best cables in our program. Not really expensive and with a very high performance quality. The D - 501 HYBRID is regularly used as a microphone cable in critical professional recordings and as a standard product for e.g. SME in England together with the prestigious Type V tonearm. This already since 1987.

The 2 signal lines are made each of 19 x 0.1 mm. very high grade OFC wires with the highest density of very pure silver coating.
As an extra layer around the metal group, we use a Linear Structured Carbon ® (LSC) saturated coating.
The signal line insulation with the colours white and yellow is made of cell-PE, so the stripping can even be done with your fingernails to prevent wire damage on the silver coated copper strands commonly caused by mechanical stripping.
The resistance per signal lead is: 11.3 Ohm/100 meter.
The capacitance between the 2 signal leads is: 75 pF/meter.
Very flexible specially treated artificial fibres are used as a filler to prevent any harm caused by external humidity or chemicals.
The shielding consists of 96 x 0.10 mm. wires of a high grade Matched Crystal (MC) OFC with a dense and very pure silver coating and a LSC saturated helical tape.
The resistance of the shielding is: 2.3 Ohm/100 meter.
The very flexible black outer jacket is made of migration-free HULLIFLEX ® to prevent any chemical deterioration over a long period.
The type printing repeats every 25 cm. (10") to make cutting of specified lengths easy.
The external cable diameter is: 4.5 mm."

No contest then - If I thought that it would make any difference whatsoever, I'd go with the one that at least gives some objective specifications (and not pseudo-audio-babble). Not the least being the capacitance of the lead, even though it means nothing until you terminate the lead...

However, I'm not looking for improved harmonics.

[Tedrick]

Hi guys,

I am looking to improve harmonics and definition on my turntable looking for a new phono cable.

Could you recommend me anything interesting in the 500$ area?

My front end is SME 309, Lyra Skala, Jelco JAC.502, LFD MC-2 and Clearaudio Champion II.

What do you think about the Furutech Ag12? or Van den Hul D-501 silver?

Thanks.

Don't know either of the cables you mention, but I've had good luck with Nordost Frey tonearm cables on both of my VPI 'tables.

[Mark E Smith's Dentist]

The vdh D-501 should be the cable that came with your 309 - AFAIK it's the standard SME cable. I changed from that to the Nordost Frey (with my SME 309 variant) and it gave me more detail especially in the upper frequencies. At that point I was using a Lyra Helikon.

In relation to the cost of the other parts of the system the improvement for the £300 I paid for the Frey was good value.

I can hear disapproval from some of the posters above but, they're my ears, they live either side of my faulty, suggestible brain so, who cares?


JT

[Josema]

Jon, the original SME cable of my 309 is VdH D501 hybrid, not D501 silver. Silver model has more reputarion and lower capacitance.

I prefer my Jelco 502 agains the VdH 501

[Ldg]

Sonically this is one of the best cables in our program......The signal line insulation with the colours white and yellow......

Ah, that explains it. I've noted for years that yellow cables are best. I've been trying to grow a yellow following, with very limited success. Brighter the better

Anyone care to record and post samples with these different cables in the same configuration ?

[Josema]

ld, I have a very transparent system and I find BIG differences between different cables.

I recently change to AUDIOQUEST and MIT and my system improved his definition (timbre) and resolution (harmonics).

I am talking seriously, if you can't help please go out

Thanks for your time

[Ldg]

ld, I have a very transparent system and I find BIG differences between different cables.

Josema, I have a very transparent system, and I find NO differences between cables [except in the obvious circumstance where cable C interacts]. Sometimes my system is so transparent, I can't even find it in the room. It goes missing for weeks, I can only find it when dust settles on it

And pretty obviously I am helping in the broadest sense. Because, if such effects aren't real, eg are phantom perceptions, or influenced by suggestion as Jon T puts it, it is public spirited to inform people of such. You'd really want to know, don't you think, before buying ? And yes, such things do matter whether they're real or not, in that context. Even if there's a possibility it's not real, you'd want to know, wouldn't you ? And that remains a possibility, at minimum.

In fact you can help, Josema. By recording and posting samples of these 'BIG' differences, so we can all hear and analyse. But history says any such recording won't show an effect, and well conducted blind tests will fail. Even on my system which is so transparent, sometimes I can't even find it in the room. I see this as a material consideration before deciding to spend $500 on cable, rather than on some great vinyl with money to spare, for example.

And someone needs to spell out what improving harmonics means. For those of us less current in audiophile literature speak

[awkwardbydesign]

Josema, I have a very transparent system, and I find NO differences between cables

Probably perception bias.

[missan]

I must admit I don´t really know what we really mean by 'transparent'. Is it a very low noise floor or is it very low distortion we mean. Or is it a window into the music where less sound reflections and loobings play a part, or something else.
missan

[Ldg]

I must admit I don´t really know what we really mean by 'transparent'. Is it a very low noise floor or is it very low distortion we mean. Or is it a window into the music where less sound reflections and loobings play a part, or something else.
missan

According to google translate it's audiophile speak for 'good', missan I was joking, because I don't really relate to that term. All the things you mention, and many besides, can contribute to a sensation of unclear sound. I don't find it very useful to group them, and we all know to an extent what clear and unclear sound is like. But it's not quantifiable, so not transferable or much use except as a personal reference. Hence my jibe at system transparency being defined by being visible to the eye only when dust settles on it !

[Ldg]

Josema, I have a very transparent system, and I find NO differences between cables

Probably perception bias.

That admits perception bias exists. Progress !

Now all that's needed is to resolve which version of perceived 'truth' is real.

History of blind test results and pragmatism support my version. If one can't tell between cables unless one knows which is being used, and can't describe an effect without prior knowledge of others' reports, pragmatism says the effect might as well not be real.

That's why I consider my position to be OK to consider real. It's useful, repeatable, and is supported by lack of mechanism, physical measurements etc etc.